Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Busting Pechanga Lies: Adding slots will dilute existing slots

One of the big 4 tribes, Pechanga says that by adding 5,000 more slots, that it will help generate $9 billion for the state. As we have said, that is pie in the sky.

Here a comment from a well placed Las Vegas gambling executive:

Turk, a former co-owner of Fitzgerald's casino in downtown Las Vegas, brought in partner Anchor Gaming of Las Vegas to manage the casino. Before consummating its $1.4 billion merger with slot giant International Game Technology last year, Anchor announced it would sell its majority stake in Pala's management company to Turk.
The Pala tribe -- a member of the 21-tribe coalition -- will also likely expand its 2,000-slot maximum if Gov. Davis' revenue-sharing proposal makes economic sense, Turk said.
Adding slots ultimately dilutes the profits produced by existing machines, he said.
And because machines are replaced so often, it's also difficult to identify which are new machines and therefore subject to the state's potential revenue-sharing plan, he said.

OP: Just because you add more slots, it doesn't mean those slots will produce the same as the existing machines. How many of the new machines will lie fallow for many hours a day/week?
Check out the links to the right, there's lots to learn

10 comments:

B said...

Of course Jerry Turk would say something like that- he has a stake in Pala, which hasn't been forward thinking in it's growth. "...well placed Las Vegas gambling executive"? Hardly. As the GM of Pala Casino, his opinion is completely biased, and is defending his track record as a leader that tried using Vegas tactics to run a casino in a very different state. As for answering "How many of the new machines will lie fallow for many hours a day/week?" I think it's obvious that no company would be stupid enough to purchase a piece of equipment just to have it sit unused. Every successful casino in business will have already conducted their research ahead of time and populate their gaming floor accordingly, as Pechanga has obviously done. The argument is thus, mute. As any business grows, it will grow with the demand. Certainly, we can't expect the cash infusion to the state to be tremendous at first, but it will still be more than what the state has now; in good partnership with California, I know that Pechanga will continue to benefit both local and state communities. As any business grows in both size and popularity, through good investments and advertising, one may expect the returns to grow over time.
If you were suddenly brought back into the financial family of Pechanga, would you still be opposing the compacts? I have a strong feeling that your opinion would be dramatically different.

O Pechanga said...

If you'll recall, Pechanga was stupid enough to put in Class II machines under the guise of "it may look like a slot, but it isn't a slot because the slot is tied into other slots". They had to remove them.
One may expect the return to grow over time, however, they are claiming that the state is "losing hundred of millions of dollars already." You can't lose what you don't have.
If we were brought back into the tribe, where we rightfully belong, I'd be pushing to get the other 500 in the tribe where they also belong. My feelings are based on my opinion that Pechanga should NOT be rewarded for their illegal and unconstitutional actions (Pechanga Constitution)

B said...

The Class II machines were certainly a learning experience for a relatively new casino, but their removal proves my point that no successful casino would let a piece of equipment sit unused. I agree that the State is only losing money in theory; if the machine cap had been lifted some time ago, advertising strategies and development would have been well geared to bring more business in, thus providing more cash for the state (assuming that the monies would have been amended as well).

I understand your position in wanting to punish the "official" tribal members by trying to weaken them economically, but the present leadership will not be around forever. Given time, the right thing will happen, and everything that was done unjustly will be set right. Why not strengthen your brethren now, and support the uplifting of the tribe, while continuing the path to being enrolled again? Is it right and honorable for you to stand against the other people of Pechanga and to stand with the people of Pala, in an effort to bring your own people down? These are seperate issues. When I asked, "If you were suddenly brought back into the financial family of Pechanga, would you still be opposing the compacts?" I meant to imply the entire 500 or so. Of course you would support "Yes on 94."

I feel very strongly for your side, and would love for this seemingly internal debate to be broken open into the main-stream media, as I feel that anyone suffering from injustice deserves to be heard.
Something that the main-stream media has been quiet about has been the requirements for enrollment, and how those requirements had not been met. Basing enrollment on the findings of an independent expert is sketchy at best either way, at least from the perspective of the general public that has read about the "internal problems" of a sovereign nation.
In reviewing the many blogs, websites, and letters to the editor (of various local papers), much of the negative comments from the disenrolled regarding the Pechanga Tribal Government have been junior varsity at best. I have found very little that the non-tribal public might take seriously as a whole, which is absolutely horrible considering the situation. I feel, as someone from the outside, that websites, such as this, may be doing more harm to your image. I can see that you are trying to shake our souls to anger at the situation, but it only comes across lightly, akin to a cousin that has been left out of a will and is now bitterly blogging about it.
What action has been made? What can your brethren do? Where are you going with this? Are you simply angry? I see information guerilla warfare, and it falls mostly under 'harassment fire'.

All of this talk about someone's grandmother's cousin twice removed was actually a Pauma member married to A Pala member that owned a dog from the Rincon people is simply absurd to anyone from the outside. That so many haven't accepted each other as brethren despite generations of living together is absurd (on both sides), and the public that may actually be able to help you are disenfranchised by such seemingly petty squabbling. Should 94 fail, what will you do when you are eventually re-enrolled, and your brethren are bitter because you stood against them? Do you think that all of the (enrolled) Pechanga people stand against you now?
You, as a Pechanga Tribal Member, enrolled or not, have so much potential in your financial future to be a leader to other tribes across this continent that are stuggling to keep their native ways of life that are being encroached upon (such as the Gwich'in).
I think your path to a resolution is only going to be found in the family that you still have that is still enrolled. Look past the leadership that hinders you; setting your children up for a feud is not beneficial-- rather -- teach them and your neighbors children about what has happened, and these wrongs will be set right in time.

O Pechanga said...

I'd agree with you on the Class II machines, but for the fact that the casino had been open for 10 years already and the council knew it was skirting the law. It wasn't that the slots weren't generating money, it was that they were over the allowed amount of machines. Instead of closing the casino down, Pechanga had to take the machines out.

Brethren bitter? They are already bitter, there is very little happiness in their lives. Watch them, they stare at the ground because they are afraid that they will get what's coming to them.... sad.
And how do you feel that this will be set right?

B said...

I feel that it will be up to the disenrolled to set things right, and if you are justified in being re-enrolled, then it will be so as long as you odn't give up; but the things I hear sound like they are coming from people that have long lost hope and given up, and have nothing but bitterness. What do you want? To blog about it and nothing more? Or are you Pechanga? What are the requirements to be considered a Pechanga Tribal member? What are the rules? Are there not DNA tests available? What has been tried already? Are there Tribal entities, organizations, other governments that you might appeal to for assistance? Have you tried establishing another officially recognized tribe? Are you considered Pechanga by the United States Government? What ethnicity are you officially regarded as? Has there been an open dialogue between the disenrolled and the Pechanga Tribal Government? (I understand that an open dialogue may be very difficult now that so many terrible things have been said. Making personal attacks against the tribal chairman doesn't really help the cause, nor does it bolster public opinion in support of the disenrolled) Is there a mediator involved? Have the disenrolled been fighting to preserve their heritage, and have they maintained a desire to pursue their culture (such as language, arts, and education)? Blogging is one thing, but activism is another. There are some sleeping supporters out there that would love to bring your cause to the fore-front, but the path of your cause is clouded. I could easily say that no one knows that you are still fighting for your God-given rights as a people- to be recognised for what you are. I know what you are, but what I believe is not going to help you in any diplomatic relations with the Tribal Council. Who is your leader? Where is he/she taking you?

'Amo'kat said...

B, it would be nice if we could have a dialogue with the tribal council but the problem is the powers that be ignored any evidence that supported our membership and they don't have to talk to us as they consider the case as being closed even though we really never had our day in court.

Here are some examples of what we turned in that showed that we met the requirments of having to be direct lineal descendants of an original Pechanga Temecula person.

1. census records from the 1890's, the first censuses of the reservation, that showed our ancestor Paulina Hunter resided on the reservation from 1893 until 1899, the year of her death.

2. A land patent from the United States government that lists her as a Temecula Indian that gave us our Pechanga land allotment for allotment number 62, which we still own and many of us still live on.

3. probate records from the early 1900's for Paulina Hunter's land in which recognized Pechanga elders gave testimony that she was a Pechanga Indian and that she lived not only on the Pechanga reservation but in the village before the reservation was created.


4. A notarized statement from Pechanga tribal elder Antonio Ashman, called a vaunted tribal elder in the Pechanga tribe's own website, in which he states that he knew Paulina Hunter as being a member of the Pechanga Band.

4. Notarized statements by seven current tribal elders who stated that they have always recognized us as being Pechanga people.

Also the process itself was unfair and For example:

1. We were not allowed to have our attorneys present at any of our hearings.

2. We were not allowed to take notes at hearings or record any of the proceedings. I actually have a letter on tribal council letterhead that says we couldn't even bring pens or pencils!

3. We were not allowed copies of any hearing transcripts. How can anyone mount a proper defense if you don't have any record of what was said?

4. there were documents in the Record of Decision that we never saw beforehand that we were not allowed to respond to.

4.Pechanga law itself was ignored when the tribal council circumvented a 2005 law that outlawed disenrollment as a part of Pechanga law but we were disenrolled in 2006 anyway.

(Note: In addition there were other examples of Pechanga law not followed.)

DNA tests would only show that we are descendants of local Luiseno Indians and that isn't disputed by the tribe.

The tribe never concluded that we aren't such descendants just, wrongly I believe, that we aren't Pechanga people.

The main evidence against us were statements from three current tribal elders, all from a faction that calls itself The Concerned Pechanga People (The CPP) who claimed we are not Pechanga people.

(Note: the enrollment committee had a majority of its members from this faction. Their decision was not impartial).

Also some historical docments have been missing for over 150 years a fact that the tribe's own hired expert, Dr. John Johnson, explained that any Pechanga person with ancestors from this period would not be able to located.

B, it would be nice if we can get some other impartial people from the Indian community to mediate our dispute but because of sovereingty the tribe doesn't have to do so.

I WOULD BE MORE THAN WILLING TO DO SO IF THE TRIBE WOULD BE WILLING.

ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS?

b said...

Though Pechanga is a sovereign tribe, is there some entity from the Luiseno people (such as an assembly) that might hear your appeal? It seems absurd that you, being recognised through DNA as Luiseno people, are without a tribe. I think DNA might be a strong option for you right now, as you might be able to find more accurately to whom you are truly related. You just can't argue real evidence, and if you could make a big stink about scientific fact, I think you would have a case in public opinion. Old documents can be ignored, especially if there is a 150 year old gap. A large gap like that is an open invitation for reasonable doubt by anyone. Frankly, those old documents are about as precious as last Sunday's newspaper to anyone that might care, considering such a gap. Your DNA is worth your weight in gold considering that it can tell you more than just what people you belong to (It sounds like you don't have all of the information on DNA- do some more research).

I was glad to see the response above, but in all honesty, it was the first time that I had seen most of it. You need more of these facts out there. It doesn't cost much to mail flyers out to EVERYONE in Temecula and the surrounding areas, and in full color. So long as what you say is true, it couldn't hurt, could it? My point being this: No one knows, and no one cares because of it. I think Pechanga would find many of its supporters waning if they were to be associated with such injustice.

I remember a little demonstration of native looking people standing on the corner of Pechanga Parkway (Pala Road) and Wolf Valley a long time ago. I had a bit of an idea of why they were there, but it had very little impact in the community. How about the Temecula City Council meetings? Riverside County Board of Supervisors meetings? If you can get your surounding cities to regognise a problem, sure, they can't do anything directly, but they could be a potential thorn in Pechanga's side if they were sympathetic to your cause.

How many other tribes around the nation know of your cause? It's as if you can't see beyond your own territory. In general, to the American public, an "Indian" is an "Indian is an "Indian." Get another tribe to start talking about it. Have you attended any of the conferences nationwide? Why haven't we (general public) heard about it?

What does our Congressman have to say about it? California is fantastic about adding little additions to existing laws and bills. Some of the money going to the State could go right back to you-- I know it's not ALL about the money, but let's get real: it's all anyone ever talks about.

As I asked before: Have you tried establishing a seperate tribe? A unification may happen in the future, so why not get recognised right now? You are on tribal land. You have DNA to back you up. You have Elders that will vouch for you.

You are severely lacking in public support, as the public has no clue of what you are doing. You have disappeared from the radar. I found this website while researching another topic! You are like a thorny shrub that is slowly drying out in the cold weather. I am not Pechanga Tribal, but I am part Native American (from a few tribes around Mississippi), and I know the bitterness of having to jump through the hoops to be recognised as a tribal member (which I am not, though I am proud of my heritage). I am angry that you have your heritage, your family, your honor right in front of you, but as time goes by, it has been slipping slowly away. Why are you fading so quietly?! You know who you are! Sovereignty be damned-- The United States makes life a living hell for any nation that goes against the moral ethics of the general public until the situation is rectified. Do the same to Pechanga, with the ultimate outlook that you will be reunited! You put yourselves on this website as a lonely band of bitter people wanting to hurt the Pechanga tribe in spite. Change your thinking! Get the information out there; Knock on doors; Build personal relationships with the people that could help you-- Every day! Have you ever been on Oprah? Good Morning America? Dateline? CNN Presents? Knock on those doors!

Get recognised by the United States, and then find allies to bring some pressure onto the tribe.
California will not stand for the garbage that you've been put through-- if only it knew.

I know it's not easy, but if you want it, you must do it!

Who are you?!

O Pechanga said...

Federal recognition is taking DECADES. Many of our elders will be dead, which, I'm sure, Pechanga is hoping for....

b said...

Then give up. If that's all you have inside, then why should I care? Good luck. I pray for the day that you actually want my support. It doesn't really matter who I am, until you know who you are.

O Pechanga said...

Thank you grasshopper. Please continue to drop by. We'll give up when we are dead.
So far, our battle has cost Pechanga $40 MILLION dollars and that will go up.