Monday, December 14, 2009

Tosobol Clan of Pechanga has Members Caught in Pechanga's Unconstitutional Moratorium

About six weeks ago, we asked the family that complained that we never discuss the moratorium people on this blog. Of course, that's not true, as we've had a few posts directly on the moratorium people.

I challenged the Tosobol family to give us the information on their family and how they relate to Pechanga. Here is the FIRST response after six weeks, that comes from one of the comments in another post. I urge you to read the comments to our posts as there is lot of additional information. THANK YOU Michael for this contribution. I hope we get more of the Tosobol family here.

From Michael A Rios
In Regards to comments made in the past. About who the Tosbol family consist of.

We are from the


We are as follows


Our family is the only family from orignal temecula pachanga Indians Tosbol clan that has no one inrolled

please do not forget us we will not give up

Indian from tosbol clan
and dam proud of it
orignal pechanga


Anonymous said...

What allotment did their ancestor have?

Anonymous said...

The tosabol family are a very proud family, i know some of them,I heard that camilla salcido munoa, is the only family not enrolled,They are a very proud family.Why its taking so long for to be enrolled is beyond me.Is it greed? There are stories about another family being on the verge of disenrollment, and jenny miranda being part of that family. It will be a cold day in hell before she gets booted.It is time for the general membership to stop the moratorium,if any tribal members are reading this, im shure you laughing, isnt it tme to realize that what your doing is wrong? Please think of what your doing, not about your bank accounts,Sorry didnt mean that, May god bless all of you he is watching, The old saying "what comes around goes around"

OPechanga said...

HOW MANY people are part of the Rios, Aguirre and Ursua families that SHOULD be in the tribe?

Including children

Anonymous said...

please explain the need to know this. and I will gladly tell you thank you O PECHANGA for asking

t'eetilawuncha! said...

Power in numbers, is a good reason. we have heard that the moritorium numbers meet or exceed the disenrolled numbers. Combine the two injustices numbers together, and start working together is a powerful position.

'aamokat said...

Ysabel Munio, as spelled in the official allotment records, received allomtment #76 as head of household.

The Tosobals are also represented in other allotments as well.

So clearly they are original Pechanga people and they deserve their rightful place in the tribe.

Unlike the Basquez/Masiels who don't have an allotment as their "supposed" ancestor, Josepha Garcia ( and even their claim to her is questionable) didn't receive an allotment.

So the Tosobal's claim is stronger than the people who in effect have hijacked the tribe who now seem to have some sort of unholy grip on the tribal goverment and who often spoke out at the meetings, when we were in the tribe, in support of the moratorium.

'aamokat said...

"please explain the need to know this. and I will gladly tell you thank you O PECHANGA for asking."

Jumping in here, if we can put a number on how many people who have been unlawfully kept out of the tribe it helps publicize what is happening at Pechanga.

People need to know what has happened to you and your family.

While I was in the tribe I had three nephews and a lot of my cousins who were also stuck in the moratorium and I didn't think it was fair then and I still don't think it is fair now.

OPechanga said...

Both Teetilawunch and aamokat are correct. We need the most accurate number. Children who are enrolled are entitled to many things including help with child care and grants from the tribe for schooling, private schools and college.

The Hunters had 94 adults, but also 50 children (or more) who were harmed by the disenrollment. The news usually reports 135 Manuela Mirandas, but that does not include the children.

Your CHILDREN should be counted. It would also be good to know how many elders you have too.

I guess, the converse question would be: WHY wouldn't you want the number of people in the family known?

Think of it politically, Congresspeople are swayed by two things: MONEY and numbers. We have less of the first and quite a few of the second.

That's why Tosobols should support this site. Purely NUMBERS. Pechanga checks this site 5-10 times per day, dependent on the activity and content. If all Hunters, Manuela and Tosobol spent time here, equal to Pechanga, this blog would rank much higher, showing Washington and Sacramento that there are NUMBERS of people who are interested. The higher the traffic, the higher we rank on Google, which means, people googling Pechanga will SEE THIS SITE and have the opportunity to look in, increasing the traffic EVEN MORE.

Anonymous said...

First let me start off by stating that our lineage has never been broken
We start back to 1784 with my 5th great grandmother her name was Andrea Parable Tosbol. then came Petra Tosbol Thujillo. then came Ysabel Munoa Thujillo then came Camill munoa Aguirre then came Ysabel Aguirre Rios. There are three familys that came from Camilla Munoa Aguirre they are as follows Rios family, Aguirre family , Ursua family .
Then comes me I am the son of manuel Rios His mother my grandmother was Isabel Aguirre Rios my grandmother she had two sons my dad and my uncle Mike Rios and his family well that is as far back as I can go
Iam now going to share with all about how many in our familys

Rios family- 44
Aguirre family - 33
Ursua family - 24
TOTAL - 101

thank you MICHAEL . A . RIOS

'aamokat said...

So it is clear that this family not only can prove they are from the original reservation from the late 1800s, they can prove they were original Temecula Indians before the reservation was created.

Amazing that reportedly Jenny (Masiel) Miranda and her cohorts were trying to get their entire clan, not just those stuck in the moratorium, disenrolled.

I wonder what kind of lies they could have come up with to try to get their evil deed done?

Ironic that Jenny's family history is suspect yet they are the ones who decide who is in and who is out?

One of the Munoas in the tribe asked what have the Masiel/Basquez family ever done to them but I heard over and over again that the Munoas were on the CPP hit list.

Anonymous said...

Who are the CPP? What are their names, and why do they make decisions?I thought the membership decided? Are they afraid of disenrollment if they speak out against the CPP? Is that why the moratorium is still on? How can the manoas be targeted? Havent they proved themselves? And yet the basquez/maisels still continue to prevail! Wake up pechanga members, Dont be afraid,right the wrong thats benn going on for qver a decade! It feels good to do the right thing!

'aamokat said...

The CPP, the so called Concerned Pechanga People, are a lot of the same people who were members of the splinter group who tried to start their own government in the early 1980s.

They and their supporters include Ed Burbee, Gloria Wright, Russell "Butch" Murphy, and others which until recently, included Jenny (Masiel) Miranda, Andy Masiel Sr, Raymond Basquez Sr. and enrollment committee members (at the time of our disenrollment) Irene Scerce, Ruth Masiel, and Francis Miranda.

Chairman Mark Macarro, Councilmen Mark Calac, Murphy, and Masiel Sr have often sided (and some are part of the CPP) with the CPP's positions in important decisions such as not including the Hunters in the 2005 law that outlawed disenrollment and allowing us to be disenrolled in 2006 anyway.

And they also allowed biased enrollment committee members such as Ruth M, Francis M, and Irene S to vote on the Hunter disenrollment case despite the fact that their family members and friends in the CPP were the people who submitted the so called evidence against the Hunters.

Francis M reportedly said to the Hunters, "it doesn't matter what you turn in you are being disenrolled anyway."

We turned in a lot of evidence in our support that would have satisfied any unbiased reasonable people, even if they had doubts going in about our membership credentials, that we are indeed Pechanga.

But the committee ignored our evidence and if it could happen to us, it could have happened to the Munoas the same way.

And reportedly as recently as last year the CPP was going down their list and trying to get more families and presumbly the Munoas were included, disenrolled.

But apparently the enrollment committee didn't open an investigation against those families.

And if the non Basquez/Masiel people have now turned their attention on the Basquez/Masiels, thus deviding the CPP ranks, that could be a good thing down the road.

We have posted some important questions that the Basquez/Masiels haven't answered themselves regarding their membership credentials and it is beyond me why they have have had such influence on membership issues.

But apparently they have their people in key positions to get their work done but hopefully, as I said, that is changing.

Yes people have been afraid that they could be next and that probably has a lot to do with their lack of action but maybe that too is changing.

Anonymous said...

Look- the Masiels are known to have Automatic weapons because it has been discussed at many Tribal Meetings. The Basquez are know felons because it has been discussed to allow felons a run a tribal positions... will the weapons ever be used to harm the flesh instead of the oak trees on the reservation??? will the felons ever hold key positions in tribal governance??? Time will tell...

Anonymous said...

From Michael.A. Rios
you know when I was a young man I remember My father saying how He wanted to live and build a home just like his family had on the rez.
He use to say that He wantedto live out his and my moms life there
Well my dad is 79 now and my mom is 80 do you think its to late for them. I hope not.
I dont think they will be around another four years to see his dream come true. but it will live on with us his kids.
I remember My grandmother telling us of her life on the rez. I can remember sitting around the table listing to her talk.
I sometimes think what it would be like to live on the rez. to live around my family to share stories about the past . I and my bother well take on my father dreams of living on the rez
because if you have a dream you have everthing if you dont you dont have shit
thank you for listing to me see you next time mike rios or Ironhorse mike

OPechanga said...

Wishing and having a dream won't get the job done Mike. It's time to step up and help your father realize his dream.

HOW? By getting all your family involved. By going after your right to belong. HOW? By being MORE vocal, getting your KIDS involved. HOW? Making sure you use all tools available. WHAT? Facebook, Myspace, THIS BLOG, Why? Because there are few other outlets, because they already have an audience.

D. Mendoza said...

O Pechanga,

I am Michael's Nephew, my Grandfather is Manuel Rios SR. I remember as a young boy-maybe around seven or eight-standing outside the Riverside County Courthouse picketing,handing out fliers and the such. I believe our family is very active in attempting to get our family enrolled, and has been for the whole decade of this moratorium. We have gone to the Department of the Interior, the Pechanga Government itself, the news media, a few years back one of my grandfather's articles made it to the front page of the newspaper. NOTHING has been done for this.

CPL(P) Daniel V. Mendoza, NREMT-P, EMT-T
68W - Health Care Specialist
U.S. Army

bringing all the people together said...

In regards to the three families: Rios family-Aguirre family-Ursua family. First...note the word family at the end of each name...Grandfather had said "in this time period or generation-- all the people would come back to the old ways..They would be as one nation. Is not keeping out the 3 families going against our fathers prophecies? It is wrong. Here is one example:
Native American Prophecy
“He who is all wise, all knowing, brought to the Navajo people something like a Holy Book except that the Navajo could not write at that time so He gave it to them in the form of chanting. To chant is to speak in rhymes like poetry so that the ancient wisdom is remembered longer. This chanting is like the Holy Scriptures. It tells the Indians what to look for at the 'Time of the End' when he would come to the people again . . . One of the Holy Medicine Men said that the 'Time of the End' is like two more stages to climb forward: the first is to have the Spirit of the people live again, and second, the people shall melt into one, meaning that true love between people shall be practiced. In the chanting He (the Great Spirit) has said that He is expected in the east, but also expected in the west. As He comes and brings these good things of the spirit and of love it will be the most happy and glorious occasion.” (1963 by: Naturegraph Publishers, Inc.)
Note we should treat each other as one family..go to:

We should treat each other as Grandfather told as to during these times (As One People)..

Let's get back on the right track!