Tuesday, December 22, 2009

Concerned Pechanga People INFIGHTING: Anti-Masiel Basquez Sentiment Growing?

UPDATE: Moving this post up to front as I've received requests to see it on the front page. For those readers that are unfamiliar with this blog, there is an archive on the left side panel where you can view posts by month and year. We've had a lot of posts since we started up and please take the opportunity to look at our previous posts. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR continued support. Please share this blog on your FACEBOOK PAGES, there's a link for that on the top of the blog.

Original Pechanga's Blog has received some paperwork prepared by the Concerned Pechanga People (CPP)that raises questions about the family history of the Masiel/Basquez/Leyva ties to Pechanga. They show NO lineal descent from an Original Pechanga person.

I have a shortened version embedded here, but also have a full version available which has census information. Suffice it to say, a family who has done the most to tear apart the tribe, has some questions to answer to the Pechanga Membership.

What drives a family to work so hard to eliminate members? Money, Power? We believe both are the driving forces.

It's time for the Pechanga General Membership to stand up for what is right and do right by those rightful Pechanga people that they eradicated from their rolls and stand up to this crime family. It's well past time for the Pechanga Tribal Council to uphold the rule of law and the Pechanga Constitution.

Anyone wonder if James Fletcher, former supervisor of the BIA in Riverside has run interference for these people? He's now has a high paying job with the PDC. Just asking.

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'aamokat said...

Is it surprising that the CPP is now turning on the Masiel/Basquez family that they sided with in getting rid of the Hunters and the Manueal Mirandas?

It reminds me on what would have happened in World War 2 if Germany had won the war.

They would have turned on their allies Japan and Italy just as the CPP is now turning on their allies.

So it is also no surprise that the CPP is now after their former allies

Anonymous said...

Not suprising at all, but will anyone do anything?

The BIA needs to be held responsible for alot of things, this included.

Phil Cuevas said...

What is that I hear? Is it the sound of shit hitting a fan??

Anonymous said...

shit IS hitting the fan

CPP bess bee skurdd !!

Anonymous said...

I'm SHOCKED, SCHOCKED that a family like the Masiels would LIE about their history.
Next thing you'll tell is that they beat their spouses and have a drug problem and shoot at people...

What good company to keep...

Anonymous said...

I hear James Fletcher has actually been complaining about his "big pay cut" since leaving the BIA and now working in the PDC... is that insane or what?

maybe he should try his gambling luck... it worked for Wolf...

Didn't Wolf walk away form the his coucil position just after winning "big" at the casino?

Anonymous said...

Didn't James work for the BIA for 30+ years? Maybe he was the supervisor when the Masiel was making "additions... I mean committing crimes by altering the cencus rolls.

Anonymous said...

I think this shows the recklessness of following any one family. All the more reason to have MORE tribal members, so there will never be a family that is too powerful. Working for the good of the TRIBE should be the ultimate goal.

Absolute power corrupts. There is STILL time to do the right thing. Bring the families back are required. Allow the moratorium people to be enrolled.

JaSinner said...

So if these "Mexicans" are found to be NOT who they claim to be (Pechanga Indians)..

Does that mean that any/all voting/decisions that they had involvement in, in regards to the other(2)family's Dis-Enrollments should now be considered invalid since they had no such authority to make such votes or decisions....?

I would imagine that this one family would have been able to sway the vote against those who have been Dis-Enrolled and Stuck in the ILLEGAL Moratorium...

Anonymous said...

Mexicans getting to vote now, but not true Pechanga people?

Time for a "do over" Pechanga Council and do it right this time. Suspend and Masiel Crime Family member from ANY position in the tribe. And then REVERSE any decisions made with a MexiBasquez involvement since the witch hunts began. Isn't that PIG Yoli McCarter a MexiBasquez?

Anonymous said...

Mexicans are Catholic's, they keep records of their familes somewhere. I bet their are birth certificates somewhere. Trace the two families through the Catholic Baptismal records, you may get lucky and find some serious proof.

OPechanga said...

Southern California Agency
Bureau of Indian Affairs
2038 Iowa Avenue, Suite 101
Riverside, CA 92507

Telephone:(951) 276-6624

Anonymous said...

This is great news! you people that know you dont belong should be tared and feathered! All these years, and you knew it all along! mexibasquez and maisels, start packing,and pay back what you stole!

Anonymous said...

Investigate ALL families...it is not true that all families were identified as 'mission.'

There are very few pechanga blood Indians..

Impossible for descendants of Apis to be Pechanga blood...Apis and wife not Pechanga

Anonymous said...

Apis buried many a Pechanga warrior on his land. He stood up for the Pechanga people.. he's as much Pechanga as any Masiel Basquez crime family member.

Anonymous said...

At the next meeting someone should ask the council what they are going to do on this issue. I heard that the council and enrolment committee have received these documents about a week ago.

Anonymous said...

This info. was presented to the tribe 4 years ago. They did nothing. The Hunters were dissenrolled with the "member" who worked for the bia casting a vote against the family. How fair is that! Maybe this is a crack in the damn? The cpp do have a tight grip on the tribe right now. We will see. Good work exposing the truth OP!!

'aamokat said...

It is true, this information was presented to the enrollment committee actually almost six years ago but the Masiels/Basquez were cleared from disenrollment in 2004 in time to vote on and be the deciding votes in kicking out the Manuela Mirandas in 2004 and the Hunters in 2006.

The enrollment committee did nothing about it and cleared them with only three members of the enrollment committee, well below the legal quorum of at least 51 percent of the ten member committee or six members.

So not only are there serious questions about their ties to the original people but they were never legally cleared from disenrollment.

cideways said...

Was this really presented by the CPP? If so we all knew it was only a matter of time before they turned on each other. This was common knowledge, however bringing it to the council at this time raises questions. The only Original Pechanga were mission indians and temecula indians placed on Pechanga reservation. Without the village eviction and the transfer of people to this land called Pechanga there were no pre-existing "Pechanga Indians". And it has long been known by true Pechanga people that Masiel/Basquez have NO ties to this land or the people. Very Interesting, I will be closely following this story. Looks like when Jenny and Mark are done witht this tribe they will be the only 2 left.

Anonymous said...

If they will lie about their enrollment issues, and they will lie about others, doesn't the government think they will lie to them?

Oh, that's right, they DID! When Macarro said the golf course land was SACRED.

Time for a Congressional investigation.

Anonymous said...

The criminal element that is the Masiel-Leyva-Basquez line has been able to control the weak and feeble members of Pechanga for a long time.

It's ironic that Jennie Masiel Miranda would be the one in the commercials that said the SPANIARDS tried to pull the tribe apart, when in fact, it was HER and her family that succeeded in doing JUST that.

Anonymous said...

Get rid of all the mexicans in the tribe, especially jennie meximiranda! and all the pain in the butt family of hers!

Anonymous said...

REMOVE all Masiel-Basquez line. Don't arrest them, just get rid of them

White Buffalo said...

As for past actions and votes, that these people were involved with it would have to be sorted out by a court of law and BIA, ruling. Unfortunately, Pechanga has no tribal court so the tribal council would have to petition the BIA for a procedural ruling with the understanding that the current constitution and bylaws do not cover such instances of "If-Post-facto" rule of law

Anonymous said...

The tribe is too strong and those "fighting" back are not strong willed enough. Those in the moratorium don't even come to the party.

Go away and continue to hide.

Anonymous said...

ding dongs theres a 20 page criminal complaint filed against those people its in front of the us attorney general office and a certain moratorium person was making some loud noise in a hearing ,you think some people just decided to do this on there own?

wake up croak croak

Anonymous said...

someone said remove them?

so your ok with disenrollment?

I think we all see what happens when true blood does not run a government!

moo moo

Allen L. Lee said...

OK Anonymous,
I'm laughing a little at your style of satire, sounds like you got a little "scrap" in you, which is good as long as you don't allow it to become foolish.
Since you can't reveal who you are I'm guessing you can't say who filed the complaint or what the complaint(s)is/are, but maybe you can reveal when the complaint was filed and at what office?

Anonymous said...

mr lee ,

I heard this person told the us attorney generals office if they fail to proceed with the complaint they infact would be committing a crime!

rez dog ruff ruff,

the heat is coming out of to southern cal offices.

Anonymous said...

Pit bull runs off rez dog

ruff ruff

Anonymous said...

BEAR runs off pit bull,

slaps him upside his head!

Anonymous said...

Bear see,s a warrior in the distance,1/4 cahuilla and an 1/8 pechanga!


Anonymous said...

Ah, poetry from a drunk...

Anonymous said...

As much as I hate to say it there needs to be some outside audit. If your from Pechanga there is no need to grease the council, and sway the voters. Disenroll family's so you can take what is there. Pechanga needs to wake up! Build a family tree, starting with ALL Original Allottee's that were placed on the Reservation when it was created. But the people of the tribe will continue to let Jennie and Mark make up bullshit excuses why legal petitions are illegal. You can't expect justice from the unjust.

Anonymous said...

This story is not true. Nothing has been submitted by the cpp. Wishful thinking, but spreading untrue rumors hardly helps the dissenrolled plight.

Anonymous said...

How do you know that the CPP hasn't submitted anything?

Why wouldn't they turn on their own.

Why wouldn't the CPP try to cut out more members? Because of their honest nature?

Are you on the enrollment committee?

Anonymous said...

Cpp are in contol of the tribe & at this point have no reason to attack our brothers & sisters. Sure if per diems shrink again we could use "your" information to our benifit, thank you. Also tribal members now know better than to speak against cpp. No one wants to end up like the Hunter's who tried to fight us.

Anonymous said...

HA HA, THIS IS TO FUNNY. Chicken S*&%. You may have to share a cell with some of the CPP. Naivity is not the way to go thru life.

Anonymous said...

I guess strength is not your virtue. I teach my kids to be strong and stand up for themselves, and you know what at the age of 14 they do more so than I guess you. Protect your "brothers and sisters". They turned on their own blood once, but your special right??? they would never do that to you. Frances Miranda takes per caps from her own grandchild. So continue to protect them. Your future should be interesting.

werone said...

Rest assured, there is a family that will be disenrolled in the near future. It is an unfortunate truth. Per caps are down, and this has caused alot of pushing for political power within our tribe. Many people believe it will not be me. I'm sure the people who have been disenrolled unterstand this reasoning. Everyone believes they have the proof to belong, but it's not about proof. It's a political battle. Full of corruption, Pechanga is unable to self dertermine it's membership. Custom and tradition is gone, as the current leadership has tarnished recognition of our ancestors.

Another disenrollment is looming. It's a sad day for our people.

Anonymous said...

to NOV 13 3;17 Way would you go to a party that you never INVITED too GET IT MORATORIUM

OPechanga said...

The moratorium people shouldn't have to be invited. They are blood of Pechanga and BELONG there.

It's NOT a party.

Fight for your RIGHTS, moratorium people. Don't let the issue fade away.

Anonymous said...

Wow, people.....

living in the past sucks the life out of living today.

we are coming on a new year........



you are still alive, with a mind, arms and legs!

GET, FIND, ENJOY life...... why are you people thinking and wondering about people who don't THINK, CARE or FEEL FOR YOU!!!!!!

t'eetilawuncha! said...

Awh, you do care tho, that's why you keep stopping by. As we care also. We are happy, we are alive thanks for the Happy thoughts.

Keep stoppin by, or just stay away, whatever makes your life feel enriched.

I'm sure when you go to your happy place it feels good. Enjoy it now as you travel thru this life between eternity. Once you pass, your soul is stained with the disrespect for our ancestors.

We are Happy to respect them, and shine light upon a negative situation.

No$hun Lovig

Anonymous said...

It's sad that you think we need to get the life.

We are sorry if you take us as bitter, empty souls. Alot of people who meet us and hear our story tell us how impressed they are with our abilty to control our anger. Violence is not an answer, but enlighting people to the unhealthy corruption that surrounds you and and your group is very healthy for our minds, heart and soul.

We will never go away, we are here to stay. For all our relations, we make a stand.

We will remember to send prison care packages to all the people who supported the illegal disenrollments and moritorium.

We will continue to pray for you.

Anonymous said...

"Get rid of all the mexicans in the tribe, especially jennie meximiranda! and all the pain in the butt family of hers!"

Dumbsh*t...all of the Pechanga members would be disenrolled ..you included!!

But in regards to this topic....
Once again you are giving misinformation to the public, but it's makes for a good laugh between all of us who are legitimately enrolled and will continue to be.
The so-called facts you have here are about as convincing as the facts you have that proved you are entitled to be a member of the tribe...there not !!!But if you feel you have to be from somewhere I suppose Pechanga is the best choice. Best of luck to you, though.

The Truth said...

"Get rid of all the mexicans in the tribe, especially jennie meximiranda! and all the pain in the butt family of hers!"

You finally caught on. When the Manuela Miranda and Hunters were disenrolled, that showed anyone could be. Not for proof, but a political power struggle. The Masiel/Basquez families have more holes in there story than the Mirandas or Hunters put together. It's comming out now, and there is great intrest from the DOJ. Were gettin the giggles these days. Hold on, the ride is gonna get real good!

'aamokat said...

One of the tribal hacks is laughing about evidence against the Masiel/Basquez, which in this case didn't come from us, but has a lot of the same facts that were presented in 2003 against their tribal membership.

He or she doesn't see that three different applications under different but similar names for Francisca Leyvas' for a per capita payment in the 1950's is suspect?

The letter from the BIA saying she could only be listed once and receive one payment is proof right there that her claims and therefore her family's claims are suspect.

Also, reportedly she had different 1928 applications with different listings for her mother's identity, one that says she is the daughter of who the Masiel/Basquez claim is their ancestor, which would make them original Pechanga people if that was the case, and another application where she says someone else was her mother.

Add on the fact that Francisca isn't on the Pechanga census records in the year of her birth and her supposed mother isn't listed as married to her father until several years later and although Fransisca herself appears on the census records as a young child almost three years after her birth, she isn't even listed with her supposed mother until later also.

And how about the infamous 1940 census addition reportedly handwritten and possibly written by their family member who worked in the BIA Riverside office with 13names of Basquez/Masiel family members and 12 of them weren't even born yet in 1940!

Not surprising that this family wanted at one time to use the 1940 census as a base roll for the tribe.

Plus, the Masiel/Basquez were cleared from disenrollment with less than a legal quorum of the enrollment commttee in 2003.

I guess our laughing critic may be from their family and he or she thinks it is funny that, in his or her mind at least, that no one can do anything about it.

Contrast with the case against the Hunters that was based on some missing documents from the mid 1800's that Pechanga's own hired expert anthropologist Dr. John Johnson said that a lot of other Pechanga families couldn't find either and that the case was also based on statements, all from the CPP faction of the tribe and some from the Masiel/Basquez, that have no documentation or proof to back up their claims against the Hunters.

They made the claim that only the very Indian sounding oral tradition can decide who is Pechanga and that they who claim they are the real people and that they know who other real Pechanga people are.

Could it be that they are hiding behind custom and tradition because they don't have the documentation to back up their claims for tribal membership?

I am not knocking oral tradition but isn't the fact that the Hunters had seven current tribal elders not from the CPP faction of the tribe give notarized statements affirming that the Hunters are Pechanga as well as elders who were alive during the historical period of the creation of the reservation in the 1800's who gave testimony on the Hunters behalf during the probate for Paulina Hunters land allotment oral tradition?

As one of my relative said, let's compare the Masiel/Basquez documentation with our the Hunters documentation but let's do it in a fair and impartial court setting and then let's see who would be laughing then?

'aamokat said...

Briefly, as I have gone into detail many times on this subject on other threads on this blog, here is some of the proof that we the Hunters are Pechanga:

The original written enrollment application from 1978 had a supplment sheet that came with it that listed ways a person could prove tribal membership.

Among the proof was being an original land allottee, having recognized tribal members vouch that the applicant is Pechanga, having someone in the tribe from their line of desecent vouch for the applicant, or being a lineal descendant of a Temecula Indian.

1. Our ancestor Paulina Hunter was given a land patent from the U.S. goverment as a Temecula Indian for allotment #62 which we still own and many of our family members still live on.

2. Testimony during probate hearings in 1915 in which Pechanga elders Dolores Tortuga and Jose David Rodriguez confirmed in notarize testimony that we are Pechanga and not only did our family live on the original resevation of the 1800s (backed up by the census records), that we lived in the Temecula Indian village before the creation of the reservation.

3. Before the first written application we got notarized testimony from non other than noted tribal historian Antonio Ashman, called a vaunted (much praised) elder on Pechanga's official Website, who said he knew Paulina Hunter as a member of the Band.

So tribal hack, probably from the Masiel/Basquez family, are you still laughing at our proof or are you still laughing that you think we can't do anything about it.

Well pride comes before a fall and believe it or not I will feel bad for you when it does come.

But that time will come.

Werone said...

Cousin, I feel the same way. Things could be so much different.

White Buffalo said...

In response to Anonymous of November 28, 2009 9:20 AM When this all started I wanted to use violence to stop what you and yours consider to be honorable actions, but the wisdom of my elders prevailed such as Anonymous has written November 28, 2009 1:27 PM "We are sorry if you take us as bitter, empty souls. A lot of people who meet us and hear our story tell us how impressed they are with our ability to control our anger." Don't get me wrong asshole I still want to kick the shit out of a bunch of you

I am Guero Nunez you know who I am

Munoaboy said...

Look the Masiels have been on the tribal council for many years.

Just because a few of them are violent criminals, doesn't mean the whole family is bad.

Leave the Masiels ALONE! Leave the Basquez family alone!

What have they done to us?

Anonymous said...

This story is wishful thinking!!!! Nice try OP! Nothing has been submitted dear readers. Munoaboy, is too funny (a joke). It's probably not even him. Everyone knows about the 2 families & their actions. No one dares attack them because the result would be ...!!

'aamokat said...

Munoaboy said...
"Look the Masiels have been on the tribal council for many years.

Just because a few of them are violent criminals, doesn't mean the whole family is bad.

Leave the Masiels ALONE! Leave the Basquez family alone!

What have they done to us?"

Yes they are not all bad people but what if they really aren't Pechanga and what if they were illegally cleared from disenrollment in 2003?

Munoaboy, what have some of them done to you?

I will tell you, they were probably the people who tried to get your family disenrolled.

They didn't succeed because they didn't get to submit their challenge on your membership before the 2005 law that was supposed to end all disenrollments including ours.

If they had, even if it hadn't been finalized before the 2005 law was passed, then you would be out of the tribe just like us.

As it was our disenrollment was illegal so don't count on them not coming after your family again as they have tried even after the law was passed but they were shut down.

And some of them did lead the charge in getting us kicked out of the tribe and most of us are decent people and I can't think of one Hunter who is a violent criminal.

So what did I ever do to them?


Before any families were disenrolled I was in favor of all people who were in the tribe remaining in the tribe including the Masiel/Basquez family.

But if now they can't answer some of the questions that supposedly, to our critics at least, we couldn't answer, then they should be out of the tribe.

Especially when their membership claim is weaker than ours is and they probably really can't prove they are Pechanga while we proved we are Pechanga.

That is if the proceedings had been fair.

Anonymous said...

Fair never has or ever will matter!!! Power, is what we have. No one will dare question us, as the Hunters did. Silly rabbits, the same fate awaits any fools. This is our tribe. Go live your life & happy holidays!!

The Truth said...

Anonymous Dec. 9 7:30 PM

Your fate is comming, and thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's unfortunate that you do not see yours, as it is comming, and you still don't expect it. Yours is the partial downfall, and will bring dark days for the Pechanga people.


Anonymous said...

DOJ is watching, and is in the process for serving papers. Illegal and altered government documents, will not keep you safe. We are living a healthy happy life, and justice will prevail. How was jail last time you were there? Your bed is waiting.

Anonymous said...

The real Splinter Group is comming after the people who are not Pechanga. Get ready for a real fun ride. You asked for it when you came after us. Enjoy while you can.

'aamokat said...

Anonymous of December 9, 2009 7:30PM said...

"Fair never has or ever will matter!!! Power, is what we have. No one will dare question us, as the Hunters did. Silly rabbits, the same fate awaits any fools. This is our tribe. Go live your life & happy holidays!!"

See Gentle Readers, our opponents are so arrogant that they think they will never have to abide by the rule of law.

But as I have said before, pride comes before a fall and they will not believe their eyes and ears when it does come and that is why they won't see it coming.

But I believe the rule of law will prevail and maybe sooner than later.

Anonymous said...

DOJ, hahaha been there done that. They have already turned their back on the Hunter case. Just ask Obama, they back the tribes & our soverignty. We make our own rules & govern ourselves. Real splinter group another funny one. Rumors not reality. Have a good one.

Anonymous said...

This seems to be a telling admission that the Maciels are phonies and have no regard for decent conduct. An earlier posterr said:

“Fair never has or ever will matter!!! Power, is what we have. No one will dare question us, as the Hunters did. Silly rabbits, the same fate awaits any fools. This is our tribe. Go live your life & happy holidays!!”

Sounds like something Sadam Husain, the executed Iraqi Dictator or Nicolae Ceausescu, the executed Romanian Dictator would have said before their people stung them up.

The Truth said...

We make the rules, silly one. You just don't get it. I guess you will some day. We back tribes and our soverignty too. We do not back criminals who hide under it. You may or may not be one, but there are a few that are going to cost Pechanga dearly.
Listen carefully silly one, go inside yourself. Things will not stay the same, evil NEVER prevails.

Anonymous said...

If you really believed that the Masiel/Basquez family belonged, you would never visit this site. If you really believed and had the proof you would not visit here.

Tick Tock, Tick Tock.

'aamokat said...

Our anonymous harasser said, "We make our own rules & govern ourselves."

But you also said, "Fair never has or ever will matter!!!"

So is how is allowing injustice governing yourselves?

And what are you going to do if your henchmen turn on you and violate your rights?

That is if your are rightfully a tribal member in the first place.

Are you going to run to us for help against the unjustice?

You don't think it is possible but evil often turns on their own.

Anonymous said...

I was just looking at the land patent for allotment #62 on Pechanga. Did you know the Indians had 25 years to dispute land that was given to the wrong person? Apparently the tribe knew Paulina as a member of the tribe. Just one more fact to refute the blatant lies and deception the criminal element of Pechanga spread to keep hold.

Let loose the reign of terror you have taken over the good people of the tribe.

Stockholm Syndrome…?

stand your ground said...

What is really tickling my funnybone is that, one corrupt faction is calling the other corrupt faction corrupt,
all that with a straight face
and thousands of stolen $$$ from the real Pechanga Indians.

creeper said...

To correct the above statement,
you should have said millions
of dollars have been and still are being stolen by the Corrupt Factions at Pechanga.

Anonymous said...

Make thast MILLION$ of stolen money from the real Pechanga Indians.

Michael said...

The Pechanga Casino is doing poorly, they would BENEFIT from good publicity of DOING the Right thing and bringing the rightful people home.

Anonymous said...

hehehe! OK! Sure...