Saturday, July 19, 2014

Tribes are becoming Disenrollment Clubs PART TWO

As part 2, I'm putting the juxtaposition of two of the comments from the Cedric Sunray article we linked to in part 1.  This from commenter known as ANOTHERVIEW, who is well known for comments designed to ... muddy the waters.

The legal doctrine that a tribe determines its own membership in its own forum governs membership disputes. 

The U.S Supreme Court, the U.S. Congress, and the Bureau of Indian Affairs follow this doctrine. The non-members who become identified as such during a membership dispute will of course either ignore or attack this doctrine or otherwise disparage its application to their case. 

Typically, these non-members will also attack and smear the tribal leadership of a tribe for its removal of non-members.   (OP: Is an attack a smear if it's the truth?) 

In addition, removed non-members will present a list of strawmen as the true motive for their removal: greed, power, money, control, politics, revenge, censorship, and so on.  (OP: The absence of evidence from the enrollment committee, using hearsay rather than sworn testimony, is not a strawman) 

Further, the removed non-members generally use a tactic of accusing others in a tribe of ignoring the facts and information that would prove tribal membership; however, in the process, these same non-members always and invariably question, denigrate, or disregard the set of facts and the pile of information adverse to their claim of tribal membership.  (OP: In the Pechanga case, it was sworn testimony, taken in the Luiseno language through and interpreter and sworn affadavits, vs. "The elders used to say". )

As a result, uninformed outsiders, and especially the news media workers, see a Ping-Pong effect in play, where one side says this and the other side says that. The disposition of the outsider may influence which side he believes or supports. Finally, please know, Dear Reader, that as a rule, these tribal membership disputes only settle longstanding membership issues.   (OP:  Another way of saying this is:  A lie by the tribe is as good as the truth, if you can get people to believe it, and when you can keep them from seeing the evidence themselves)
ON THE FLIP side, we have the comments of another, Pechangami who takes down the callous lies and obfuscations of Anotherview:

Pechanga determines its own membership CRITERIA. Pechanga is under seige by weasels who have been illegally enrolled. 

Anotherview is a fabulist who engages in b.s. to deceive readers about what is really happening at Pechanga. Anotherview is heavily invested in protecting the illegal enrollment status of anotherview's clan and will repeat the shuck and jive written on various sites. 

The 'enrollment committee' consists of illegally enrolled related humans. It is common knowledge that this committee's role is to enroll only those who agree to cooperate with this 'committee's criminal agendas.' 

How did this faction manage to engineer its iron grip on Pechanga? $$$$!  Politicians, Congress, and most especially The Bureau of Indian Affairs follow only the 'doctrine of corruption.' They 'play for pay.' There are politicians who are 'to channel' agendas by criminals to parties along the 'chain.' 

People would be stunned by how high up the chain of command corruption is. Corruption is now institutionalized. Anotherview..should we present our individual documents proving our lineal lines? Start with DNA which would reveal frauds from the start. Documents would reveal which lines; clans are frauds illegally enrolled and responsible for many injustices;crimes. (OP:  Funny, they never seem to want to do this, and they never take any further, because they know WE have the evidence to A. Back up our right to belong and B. Prove they don't have the same documents.

How about a public forum to provide a real forum for victims of crimes to speak openly about what really is happening in Indian Country? (Benie Campbell's parting gift before he left Congress under a cloud was ensure that 'Internal Matter' became law. Internal Matter is smoke and mirrors to hide criminal acts in Indian Country. (Political cover for 'gifts.' Another 'gift' to aid and abet injustice is promoted by 'Indian Law.' Indian Law is designed to abrogate the rights of Indians; not to protect the rights of Indians. 

It is interesting that Carole Goldberg (OP: Wife of Duane Champagne, who's recent treatise of disenrollment was widely panned and deliberately misleading) promotes Indian Law and speaks against the enforcement of Public Law 280 which would protect the rights of Indians. Why would Goldberg object? 'Not good for business!' (paraphrase) Bureau of Indian Affairs is, for all intents and purposes, really working against the best interests of the victims of crimes perpetrated by lawless thugs like those posing as 'the government.' 

The history of Pechanga and how it has come to this point is convoluted, and an on-going tragedy. I do agree that greed, power, money, control, politics, revenge, censorship, etc; have everything to do with the lawlessness that rules Pechanga today. The force and effect of corruption that holds Pechanga in an iron grip has many hidden hands and agendas. 

 It is Anotherview who blathers untrue comments. It is Anotherview who cannot meet criteria for legal enrollment and continues to attempt deflect attention away from his clan's illegal enrollment. There is no due process; no justice for victims of Pechanga. In fact, anotherview, it is you and the rest of your parasitic clan who are deceiving readers.

AND THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is HOW you smackdown your opponent's lies and misstatements.   Challenge them with the facts, offer to have a debate with the evidence for both sides.  Only ONE side is confident that their evidence is more than enough, and it ain't the side that's disenrolled.


Anonymous said...

Again that is the truth in a crystal clear production. The truth is anyone who says who they are will be able to prove it, unless you can't then you will put together a Bad Actors club to try and hide the lies inside and outside the Band. The funny thing is the lies are also crystal clear and now the Bad actors are showing everyone everywhere the truth. We are liars but the sovereignty shield should protect us from having to answer truthfully. Our ancestors are not here anymore so if I lie, and try to keep the lies open it does not matter how we really got here. DNA no thanks, looking at certified documents from the dates of the creation of the reserve, no thanks, lets just go by my lies and sovereignty should protect me not the disenrolled members who have the facts others see and agree who they are. The liars club can change and go back to "ALL MEANS ALL" or stay here and have the bad actors lie for to questions asked.

Anonymous said...

Carole Goldberg, has always been a kiss ass for the tribe (explains the article.

Now I see the big picture.