Wednesday, January 19, 2011

Is the Garbani Family AGAIN a Target for Disenrollment At Pechanga?

We are hearing rumblings from the Pechanga Rez that there may be a move afoot to take another look at the Garbani family for extermination, uh termination.

They survived an attempt in 2005.   There had been a petition passed to outlaw disenrollments, but, as we found out, that petition, which should have been tribal law, was overruled by the tribal council, led by Mark Macarro et al.

I invite all Garbani family to let us know what they know here at Original Pechanga's Blog.

49 comments:

Anonymous said...

Let's see the Apish family sat by idly thinking the BIA wouldn't let this happen to them.... The Hunter family knowing about the Apish Family demise, also sat idly thinking they would never do that to their family...now let's see if the Garbini family has learned from past mistakes. As that once famous deputy Barney Fife once said, "Ya gotta nip it in the bud, Andy".

Anonymous said...

Better do it now,once they are not members they are private citizens.

But theres really nothing they can do any how,the tribe can banish them and tell the court to screw off (as seen in the washington case)!

So this hog wash talk means nothing!

Also the BIA can,t step in because of the tribes constitution.

So really the tribe could kick out and banish anytime they want.

Anonymous said...

What CAN be done is to broadcast the terrible things the tribe has done to it's people.
Don't let them bury their dirty little secrets and then benefit from them.

Anonymous said...

I could care less about the garbini,s they have done nothing to help get true people get enrolled ,they will get kicked out and cry.(burn in hell).

Anonymous said...

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

'aamokat said...

"Also the BIA can,t step in because of the tribes constitution."

Since when do they even go by the tribe's constitution?

As they violated the constitution when we were disenrolled.

Hopefully this is just a rumor floating around the Rez but when rumors floated around that hundreds of tribal members were going to be disenrolled before we were disenrolled the enrollment committee sent letters to the general membership that it was just a rumor and look what happened to us.

'aamokat said...

"I could care less about the garbini,s they have done nothing to help get true people get enrolled ,they will get kicked out and cry.(burn in hell)."

That isn't true as one of the Garbani elders used to work to end the moratorium and speak out against it at tribal membership meetings.

"Let's see the Apish family sat by idly thinking the BIA wouldn't let this happen to them.... The Hunter family knowing about the Apish Family demise, also sat idly thinking they would never do that to their family...now let's see if the Garbini family has learned from past mistakes."

The Apish descendants were not disenrolled it was the descendants of one of his granddaughters, Manuela Miranda.

There are plenty of Apish descendants still in the tribe including the Picos, the Lukers, the Barrientos, the Magees, etc.

Anonymous said...

The BIA cannot step in,unless the tribes constitution states it can.

However the BIA did step in back in 1980 when the splinter group tried to take control of the government,thus everything hereafter should be open to the BIA because the splinter group did take over and never let go of control thus,shifting authority again for the BIA to step in today.

Anonymous said...

The BIA is worthless as an outfit.

They need to get into the game and defend Indian people.

Anonymous said...

Who does the Garbani line hail from?

Anonymous said...

The Garbani's hail from Temecula, same as the Hunters. Except with less documentation.

Anonymous said...

But still more than what Basquez line or Frances Miranda have,.

'aamokat said...

From the allotment list, allotment number 77 Garboni, Josefa.

There is also the name Garboni on the census records for the reservation in the late 1800's.

But if the CPP is after them again, then what do facts have to do with anything.

Has anybody asked Francis Miranda lately why her ancestor C.N. Flores is not listed on any of those late 1800's census records but is listed as living at Soboba in two of those years?

After all her sister Manuela Miranda's descendants were disenrolled for supposedly cutting her ties to the tribe when her mother died as a young child and she had to move in with C.N. Flores.

So either both family lines should either be disenrolled or both should be in the tribe.

But who cares if elders from the period vouched that M. Miranda was a member of her tribe?

Besides, the law to outlaw disenrollment was passed in 2005 but again since when do they follow tribal law so what is stop the CPP, if they have the votes on the committee, to vote the Garbonis out even if the procedures to move against them don't exist anymore?

After all, they disenrolled us the Hunters in 2006 even though it was illegal to do so

Anonymous said...

Whats the story on the Basquez family...i se that name on here many times..are they not Pechanga?

'aamokat said...

The Basquez/Masiel line is from Francisca Leyva who was not on the Pechanga reservation census record the year of her birth in 1898 and she wasn't listed at all on any of the census records until she was almost four years old and even then she wasn't listed with the woman they claim was her mother, Josepha Garcia, until even after this.

Also, Josepha was listed as married to someone other than Francisca's father the year of Francisca's birth and she wasn't listed as living with Francisca's father, Vincente Leyva, who wasn't Pechanga, until later also.

In addition Francisca reportedly had several different 1928 applications for enrollment as a California Indian with conflicting information and three different applications for a small per capita payment in the 1950s under variations of similar names and the BIA informed her she could have only one applications for a payment under one name.

So there is still some questions about whether they are actually descendants of an original tribal member from when the reservation was created and even though they were cleared from disenrollment the decision was made by only three members of the enrollment committee, less than a legal quorum of the committee, that is supposed to be at least 51 percent of the ten member committee or six committee members.

Ironic that some of their family members sat in judgement of the disenrolled when their claim is weaker than the disenrolled's claims.

They don't have an allotment but I have heard they have tried to claim from Eduardo Garcia, who was Jospha's brother, but I am not sure if they actually claim this or not maybe someone else can verify this.

Interesting that Maxie Leyva, Francisca's brother, put San Luis Rey on a 1928 application for enrollment as a California Indian so a member of their extended family had the same information that the CPP heavy slim majority on the enrollment committee said showed that we the Hunters were actually San Luis Rey and used that as a reason to disenroll us.

Anonymous said...

so the garbini,s are not not pechanga indian that explains them not wanting to help in enroll true bloods ,(same old story).

'aamokat said...

"so the garbini,s are not not pechanga indian that explains them not wanting to help in enroll true bloods ,(same old story)."

No one here said they weren't Pechanga the question was about the Basquez family which also includes the Masiels which makes sense if they are not Pechanga because it was they who led the charge in support of the moratorium.

Ledonna Garboni was one of the biggest opponents of the moratorium.

She spoke out against it at general membership meetings on several occasions.

Understand that not everyone who is or was a tribal member voted for the moratorium or its extentions.

I for one voted against it and I also met with Norman Pico Sr while my family was still a target for disenrollment, and looking back, at risk to my own status as a tribal member and my family's risk as well.

Please reread my post about the Basquez/Masiels as, like I said, it was they I was talking about and not the Garbonis.

It is a shame that the moratorium people haven't been able to share in any prospertiy the tribe has had but understand that our family members as well, even when we were still enrolled, didn't get to share in it either.

My brother's children were stuck in the moratorium when someone from the enrollment committee said that they had to be 18 to be enrolled and by the time they were 18 the moratorium had started.

When my mother went to the enrollment committee to complain about being lied to she was ordered out of the committee with a loud "get out!" and a finger pointing to the door.

She went to the tribal council and complained about their actions and her treatment by the committee and she was told by Mark Macarro, "maybe you should take out a petition to make it illegal for the enrollment committee to lie."

That the enrollment committee, controlled by the CPP, have consistantly lied to people can be seen when they told people who ended up in the moratorium that their paperwork was in order prior to the moratorium and that they were being processed for membership when in fact they were not processed.

This was one of the things the enrollment committee members elected in 2002, includng members from the M. Mirandas, the Hunters, and also the Garbonis, that was brought to light to both the committee and the tribal council that was ignored and swept under the rug.

No wonder that the Hunters and M. Mirandas were disenrolled and the Garbonis were and still are a target of the CPP.

Realize the CPP, which had its beginnings in the Splinter Group of the early 1980s, who are the root of all of the trouble at Pechanga including both disenrollment and the moratorium.

'aamokat said...

I said,

"I for one voted against it and I also met with Norman Pico Sr while my family was still a target for disenrollment, and looking back, at risk to my own status as a tribal member and my family's risk as well."

In case it wasn't clear, when I met with Mr. Pico I was trying to start a petition to bring a vote to the people to end the moratorium but I was disnerolled before I could do so.

I had never done a petition so I didn't want to do it in the wrong format and have Macarro and company throw it out so that is why I went to Mr. Pico as I knew he was against it too.

Mr. Pico told me, "we have to stop the disenrollments first as they are still after your family and then we can take on the moratorium."

We had stopped the disenrollments, or so I thought, as the law was passed outlawing it but we were kicked out anyway.

So some of us were doing things behind the scenes even though people in the moratorium were and I guess some still are, blaming us for the moratorium.

The same thing happened when the Manuela Mirandas were disenrolled two years before we were.

Some of them wondered why we were not doing anything to help them without knowing that a lot us (the Hunters) contributed $500 dollars apiece to their legal fund so we helped fund their court challenge but under cover as we were still a target for disenrollment ourselves.

Anonymous said...

I understand the tribe wants DNA for all new members...

If everyone in the tribe has had their DNA done, wouldn't the Hunters and Mirandas DNA match up as Pechanga??

'aamokat said...

"If everyone in the tribe has had their DNA done, wouldn't the Hunters and Mirandas DNA match up as Pechanga??"

My uncle had DNA testing done on himself and it showed up he was Luiseno but the tribe doesn't deny that.

So it is my understanding that members from the local tribes would all appear the same in DNA tests.

The issue is what Luiseno tribe we are from we know we are of the Temecula tribe (AKA Pechanga) but a slim majority of biased enrollment committee members from the CPP faction of the tribe claimed without proof that we are San Luis Rey tribe which is another local but not federally recognized Luiseno tribe.

Anonymous said...

So if Pechanga refuses you, can you in essence join another tribe? Not that you would want to, I understand that, but would you be able too? I am only asking because I know that unlike what Maccaro states, there was alot of traveling around where girls were married to other indian groups, white men, etc....

In my family alone, although we started as Pechanga, one family married into the Mesa Grande tribe which had children so I believe, not sure, but the children from that marriage could enroll as Mesa Grande, who also I believe is enrolling.

Not that I can do the same, but I am only asking for clarity. I do not believe you should leave what you know.

Did you know that in Washington state alot of the tribe from a Yakima band is reenrolling into the Tulalip tribe? Because as is the same with most tribes, there was alot of mixing.

'aamokat said...

The thing is if anyone even trys to enroll in another tribe even if they aren't accepted that disqualifies them from being members at Pechanga.

This is in the tribal constitution.

Anonymous said...

Thats Bs aamokat about the other tribes (if they are members of other tribes)then they are DQ and as far as DNA testing thats also bs,because certain people have already did DNA testing and it does not mean squat!

'aamokat said...

You are right about the constitution and bylaws saying that you have to be a member of another tribe to be disqualified as I rechecked what is written there and it says under Article II, section C: "if you have ever been enrolled or recognized in any other reservation you cannot enroll in Pechanga."

What I was quoting before, it turns out, was from the Record of Decision against us from the enrollment committee and I believe it was also in the disenrollment procedures as well, which I can't find at the moment.

So, not surprising, the enrollment committee took it on themeselves to add stuff to what the constitution and bylaws says so thanks for pointing that out.

As far as the DNA stuff is concerned, I believe that to be correct.

I don't have access to my uncles test at this time though as that was taken probably ten years ago.

Anonymous said...

The Garbani's are claiming to be from Santiago Gauvish...But he never had tries to Pechanga nor does he show up on the cenus? Unlike the Hunters, he was never alloted land. Disenrolling the Hunter family was a mistake, but the Garbani's are truely not from Pechanga and that's why Lucy got on the enrollment committee so she could deflect attention away from the Garbani family. Lucy is a back stabber, she supported the Macarro's and the disenrollment to save herself.

Anonymous said...

Thank you , above post for telling us the truth, now we can get some answers.

I like posts like the one above.

'aamokat said...

"the Garbani's are truely not from Pechanga"

From the allotment list, allotment number 77 Garboni, Josefa.

I also remember seeing this name on the census records from the first censuses of the reservation of the late 1800s.

So aren't they descended from this person and if they are, is there any information that this person was not pechanga?

But even so, the law outlawing disenrollment passed into law in 2005 but the CPP did get rid of us in 2006 and even though that wasn't legal, at least they could claim that our case was pending.

I don't see how they can now rationalize going after the Garbonis now when not only are the disenrollment procedures no longer a part of tribal law, it is also illegal now to investigate anybody for disenrollment.

Of course the unholy power of the CPP makes them think they can do anything they want no matter how illegal.

Anonymous said...

thanks, but from what i can see is you are correct about Santiago not being around Pechanga during the census'.

Although Santiago, Augustine and Michellas father WAS on the reservation during that time and for quite a few years living with Michella. Since Christina received allotment, Santiago's daughter, I assumed that he had died. Although upon further hunting I found that he and his wife lived at Pala.

But the tribe says if you can trace to someone living on the reservation in the 1800's would they not be legit due to Tequate or Felcustio?

Luiseno said...

"they could claim that our case was pending"

Not so since the Tribe voted specifically to keep the Hunters in the Tribe. When asked if the Hunters would be included, Mark said "all means all". So it can be argued that the Tribe voted with this in mind, and part of there intent was to keep the Hunters in the Tribe.

He can not claim that the Hunters were not included in the vote to stop all disenrollments, and to remove the process from Tribal law. The General Membership had voted with the specific intent to keep the Hunters in the Tribe.

Vision Quest said...

Very interesting.

'aamokat said...

"they could claim that our case was pending"

Of course they really legally couldn't claim as it was very clear that everyone was included in the new law outlawing disenrollment that but at least someone may have believed them that was a reason we the Hunters weren't included.

Now, when it is illegal to even investigate a family and of course those procedures still don't exist, how can they possibly justify going after another family?

But they just do what they want anyway.

'aamokat said...

I should have worded it, "tried to claim" instead of could claim.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone been enrolled this month?

Anonymous said...

Not me

Anonymous said...

Francis Miranda's father wasn't even a Pechanga member by blood. She knew this and that is why then enrollment chairperson Mary Magee was removed from the comittee. SHe found this out and could've had them dienrolled. The other part is that enrollement is "unbroken lineal decent". So if an ancester was not enrolled, then the children of that person could not be enrolled. Same goes for Cahuilla and many other tribes.

Anonymous said...

This is how I undersstand it though. I could be wrong about that unbroken decent.

'aamokat said...

"The other part is that enrollement is "unbroken lineal decent". So if an ancester was not enrolled, then the children of that person could not be enrolled"

Under Article II of the The Band's constitution and bylaws:

Membership is an enrolled member documented in the Band's Official Enrollment Book of 1979.

Qualifications for membership of the Temecula Band of Luiseno Mission Indians Are:

A. Applicant must show proof of Lineal Descent from original Pechanga Temecula people.

B. Adopted people, family or Band, and non-indians cannot be enrolled. Exception: People who were accepted in the Indian Way prior to 1928 will be accepted.

C. If you have ever been enrolled or recognized in any other reservation you cannot enroll in Pechanga.

So it doesn't say if someone's ancestor wasn't enrolled, then a person cannot be enrolled.

In practice anyone whose ancestor was enrolled in another tribe was not enrolled and so far, too bad for us, anybody whose ancestor was disenrolled cannot be enrolled.

Our ancestor Paulina Hunter was disenrolled so, as I said, for now we are out of the tribe.

But 53 members of the Hunter family were on that 1979 list and members of the Manuela Mirandas were also so how could they use that list now?

Anonymous said...

Mary Magee is NOT Pechanga descendant either.

Anonymous said...

Wheres mary magee from? MARS?

Anonymous said...

If she is not it means none of the apish people are not either,that means john gomez from airro ,gomez sr ,all of them are not pechanga because they state they are related?

So what was that anonymous 10:18?

Tell us the truth you have secret facts?

Anonymous said...

I heard there is two mary magee,s in the tribe?

Anonymous said...

Well if Mary Magee is not Pechanga. I guess everybodies friend Joe Liska need not post on any of these blogs because he is not Pechanga. What do you say to that Joe? Magees are from the Nesikat line, right?

Anonymous said...

Sounds like anonymous 10:18p.m. is trying to knock a hole in a majority of these families claims and discredit all this fight.

??????

joe said...

I am not a member of the tribe, I don,t have a degree of Indian blood(yet)that states I am pechanga/cahuilla ,and if I did,I don't really think it would mean alot at this point.

I don't care anymore,(some people say,whats wrong with you)?

There is no shame in my GAME,thats why I can walk away a proud man.

I answer to GOD ,I don't need to prove my love to my family up there,I don't need to prove to anybody who I am!

It's that simple.

If you do,thats your god given right and I hope that you will one day find the peace in your heart you seek.

I realize alot of you were members and have alot of hate and anger toward others.I also realize some of you have to live up there next to people that disenrolled you,(that must be very hard)and I wish you luck with that.

Someone here was talking about the bible ,maybe thats how you do it.

White Buffalo said...

“If she is not it means none of the apish people are not either”

Now gentile poster, don’t get mad but I am 100% sure that we the Manuela Miranda decedents are direct decedents from Pablo Apis. Seems that someone has told you information that is incorrect, as I understand it the Magee’s married into the Apis line at the time when the people signed the treaty in 1850 when California became a state, for John Magee was a resident on Pablo’s property. I am not an experts so do not quote me, but I am sure that we have proven unbroken lineal decent from an original Temecula Indian as the constitution and bylaws require for enrollment. You must remember that the CPP will do and say anything to cast doubt in the minds of the people

Anonymous said...

Confused the CPP are part of that clan right?And I read your other post why did your aunt francis kick you out? Confused?

Anonymous said...

Frances and her criminal co-conspirators were to be investigated and disenrolled for crimes against Pechanga...John Macarro entered into a conspiracy with Frances et al. The conduit was Jolie. They were in cahoots to protect their illegal status on Pechanga.

John Macarro hid behind his sham as counsel to direct and protect criminal activities against Pechanga's best interests.

Anonymous said...

Daughter of Pablo Apish - Juana was married to Anselmo Nesicat. As I understand it, one of their daughters -Custoria married John Magee and so on down the line. So is it the Nesicats that you mean married in to the Apish line. That would include the Picos as well, wouldn't it??

Anonymous said...

All this whining about enrollment! Take a look at how u people enroll!! I SEEN BLUE EYED BLONDE HAIR PECHANGA TRIBAL MEMBERS!!!! Come on AT LEAST be a quarter indian!! Like pala Pauma rincon! Blood degree!!