Wednesday, April 1, 2009

More Disenrollments Coming At Pechanga?

Dear Readers, it sounds like it's happening AGAIN at Pechanga. It looks like another family has received letters of disenrollment. This would be another violation of Tribal Law at Pechanga.

The story is developing and NO, it's not April Fooling.......


'aamokat said...

Part of the reasoning that the tribal council gave for not allowing us, the Hunters, to be included in the July 2005 petition that outlawed disenrollment was that it didn't say specifically that our family was covered by the new law.

Despite the fact that the attorney from Indian legal services said that the tribe could vote to stop all disenrollments and the fact that chairman Macarro said, "all means all," when he was asked for clarification that the petition being voted on included everyone who was in the tribe as of the day of the vote.

Our critics said the wording of the petition was too vague and that is why we were not covered by the new law.

However, the new law did say specfically that it was against Pechanga tribal law from the day the petition was passed for the enrollment committee to investigate anyone for disenrollment.

I hope it is not true that another family has to go through what we have been through.

However, maybe it will take an even more blatant disregard for tribal law by the powers that be for the people to wake up and stand up for what is right.

The unfairness of the kangaroo court that was used to kick us out of the tribe was blatant enough but sorry CPP this time you have gone to far and you won't be able to hide behind sovereignty on this one.

Remember, pride comes before a fall!

To the people who support sovereingty at all costs:


Again, this is what is going to erode all tribes' sovereignty, the total disregard for the rule of law by people who consider themselves a select few.

We the victims are not going to be the cause of this.

But still, I do hope the new disernollments at Pechanga are just another rumor.

Anonymous said...

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

Anonymous said...

APRIL FOOLS OP??????????? WHO???? WHAT FAMILY GOT LETTERS????? IF SO THE ARE F CKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PER CAPS NEED A BOOST AGAIN.

OPechanga said...

No April Fools.

Also, the casino is very slow, and it's hard to meet a $22.5 MILLION per capita payroll every month.

OPechanga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

What a bunch of greedy Indians! How do these people become less Indian over night? So, I guess it's not just their employees they treat horrible...they even spit on their own family...shame on wonder the place is empty!

'aamokat said...

In speaking to a tribal elder a few weeks ago, I was told the same thing, that there is another family on the block but he didn't tell me who the family is.

But even though this person is a reliable source, I am still hoping it is just a rumor.

As I said in my last post, how in the world can they twist this one to fit their plans?

As the petition passed in July 2005 made it is very clear that since that date it is illegal to investigate anyone for disenrollment and that disenrollment is now not part of tribal law.

Well other tribes worried about tribal sovereignty, The BIA, The Obama Admistation, the courts, and the United States Congress, are all of you going to sit back and say that it is none of your business if Pechanga again breaks their own law by kicking out still more people?

But if they do disenroll another family and nobody does anything about it, then it is even more clear that in some tribes all sovereignty does is protect liars and theives!

Sigh! but if they can kick out my family, then I suppose anything is possible.

Anonymous said...

Please look back over our previous comments, warning after warning exists that this would/will happen. The ONLY reason for the Hunter family disenrollments was greed and power. When/as any other families cause a threat to power or wealth; disenrollment will be their answer again. Until this evil government is disassembled, anyone in the tribe is unsafe.
I like the analogy with Nazi Germany. No one in their home land believed it would happen. An evil government is a scary thing! We must all be very careful to call our leadership to reckoning.
The Pechanga government has distorted its thinking beyond sanity. They are a shame and disgrace to the Indian nation.

Anonymous said...

im really happy that they are bringing bus after bus of Asians...they are stealing the casino blind...they go home with bottle after bottle of water(for which they dont tip)..they go in the rest rooms and steal toilet paper and paper towels and stick them in their huge bags..they put their cards in peoples machines to get points and then go and eat for free and basically drive the paying patrons out of the casino with their constant staring and not this rate they will have to kick out many family members just to keep the bus loads coming in!!
Good job Silver Feathers...way to ruin a tribe and a Casino!

White Buffalo said...

This does sadden me. I know that to say that you were warned is of no comfort to the affected family. Hope the rumor is false. You know we are told to stop crying about losing our Identity and history and we are also told to "move on" with our lives, but I must say that I will never stop fighting and that instead of moving on we move forwarded. Keep writing to anyone who will still accept your letters, fax, and e-mails. Be like the duck on the water.

'aamokat said...


JUNE 19, 2005

The purpose of this petition is to repeal the disenrollment procedures and declare all currently enrolled members as meeting the qualifications for membership for all purposes under the laws and customs and traditions of the Band.

The reasons for this petition is to bring harmony and peace back to the membership.

For all purposes under the laws and customs and traditions of the Band, the General Council of the Band hereby declares:

1) The Disenrollment Procedures is repealed effective June 19, 2005.

2) All persons whose names appear on the membership roll as of June 19, 2005, constitute a base roll and meet the qualifications for membership in the Constitution and Bylaws.

3) Any persons who proves an unbroken chain of lineal descent from a member is (2) also meets the qualifications for membership in the Constitution and Bylaws.

4) It is unlawful for the Enrollment Committee to investigate members for disenrollment purposes."

Above is the petition that was justified by the Pechanga General Council (membership) on June 19, 2005 and was passed into law by the Pechanga General Council, the final authority on all matters of Pechanga tribal law, on July 17, 2005.

We will continue to insist that the Pechanga tribe return to the rule of law and abandon its lawlessness.

Anonymous said...

garboni "so called" clan sold their soul to the devil 3+ years ago. Not many facts on their side-pechanga ec knows it(the hunter's clan have 10 times more documents than g's). The black sheep of their family may be in trouble. Most of them are now slaves to the cpp. .......thanks Garboni's.

'aamokat said...

Yes we have a lot of facts to back up that we the Hunters are legitimate Pechanga people but in looking through the allotment records there is a Garboni listed as having allotment number 77 and I have seen the name Garboni in the census records in the late 1800's.

So there is some information to back up the Garbonis' claim of being Pechanga.

But if they are not direct descendants of the Garboni listed in the records, that would be, one would think, the only way they aren't legitimate.

I really don't know the details on their family line so I can't comment on this point.

Anonymous of April 1, 2009 mentions the black sheep of the Garboni family, that I don't know about, but I will say that one of few people I heard at a General Membership meeting speaking out about how unfair it was that the her relatives were not being enrolled and talking about lifting the moratorium was a Garboni.

Ironic that the people who have a questionable claim of being original Pechanga people, the Basquez/Masiels, are probably the main people behind this latest disenrollment if it turns out these new disenrollments happen and if it is the Garbonis, then they have less of a claim of being legitimate than the new disenrollees.

Anonymous said...

how many people in the Garboni clan?....would it be a large number?

'aamokat said...

You figure if Garbonis are desecedants from the person or people from the census records of the late 1800's that they would probably have, like us, around 100 or more adults from their line of descent.

So another family numbering at least 10 percent of the tribe would be wiped out of by the stroke of a pen.

I was thinking that Pechanga, since the disenrollments of the Manuela Mirandas in 2004, has tried to distance the tribe from Chief Pablo Apish so that it is quite possible that more of his descendants, not the Garbonis, are the new disenrollees.

After all, the Picos, Lukers, and others are also Apish descendants.

But so is Francis Miranda but I doubt her family are the ones as she is from the CPP.

It would be something if Mark Luker's family are kicked out of the tribe after he, when he was in San Diego in 2007 at the California Native American Caucus meeting, stormed out of the meeting after fringe presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said in his speech to the caucus that disenrollments are wrong and must be stopped.

Luker was heard saying as he left the room after Kucinich's speech, "that is a bunch of bullsh*t!

Well Mr. Luker, if your family is now out of the tribe, do you still think speaking out against disenrollment is a bunch of bullsh*t?

Anonymous said...

so whats taking so long about this issue?...have they been kicked out or is it just a rumor?...

Anonymous said...

Hey, get rid of Pam Toscano in the beverage department....she terms good people that no more than she does...(everybody) shes an evil liar!
tribal leadership......scary!
Her karma should be pretty twisted with her track record though...LOL
shes in for one hell of an awackening!

Luiseno said...

"so whats taking so long about this issue?...have they been kicked out or is it just a rumor?..."

This is how it always happens at Pechanga. It can take years to reach fulfillment, as the CPP readjusts its alliances by distancing themselves from there target, and aligning themselves with those to whom they promise safety to if they will just side with them. For us it started with several years of rumors, then the chairman announces that there are no plans for disenrollments, that its just a rumor. Then later on comes the notices.

'aamokat said...

What Luiseno says is correct.

We started hearing rumors that hundreds of people were going to be disenrolled in 2000.

At the end of 2001 or early in 2002 the enrollment committee sent letters to the general membership that said that there were no plans for disenrollments which Chairman Macarro repeated to the general membership at a meeting of the membership.

Well later on in 2002 enrollment committee members from the CPP faction served fellow enrollment committee members with disenrollment papers, including people from both the Manueal Miranda family and the Hunters, even before any evidence had been presented against them.

The tribal council disallowed those disenrollment filings at that time because no evidence had been submitted.

Note: The enrollment committee members from the CPP who had attempted to disenroll their fellow committee members did so after allegations had been made against the CPP committee members of wrongdoing on the committee made by the non CPP committee members.

Following the attempt to disenroll their opponents' families the CPP committee members' families and friends submitted evidence in 2003, what was really hearsay, against the people who ended up being disenrolled.

Which led to the disenrollment of the Manuela Mirandas in 2004 and the Hunters in 2006.

Note: The Hunters were disenrolled in March 2006 despite the fact that the tribe had voted in July 2005 to end all disenrollments.

I have often thought, why did we have to be disenrolled?

Well maybe it had to happen because as non trbal members we have the freedom, without fear of disenrollment, to speak out about what is happening at Pechanga.

Perhaps by bringing these issues into the light the new disenrollments can be stopped or at least delayed and someday, I hope sooner than later, all of the injustices, be they disnerollments, the moratorium, or banishments can be made right.




Luiseno said...

Lets look at the "evidence" that was submitted which started our disenrollment.

1) They said that Paulina Hunter never lived on the reservation, and that she was not on any of the census records.

answer: Wrong, She not only lived on the reservation (supported by depositions of tribal members who were there at the time), but she is on every census record from the creation of the reservation, until her death.

2). They stated that she was not even an Indian, but some woman from Ohio (which was not only laughable, but the woman that they tried to say she was wasn't born until much later).

3). They stated that no one has ever recognized the Hunters as Pechanga members.

answer: Signed witnessed depositions were submitted by many current tribal elders, as well as others who were alive and lived during the period that they have ALWAYS recognized the Hunters as members.

We were asked by the enrollment committee to submit evidence to refute these allegations, which we did. But we were disenrolled not for the allegations that had been submitted that started our disenrollment, but for a whole new line of allegations which we were never allowed to address.

'aamokat said...

The CPP used a listing from the International Geneaology Index of the Mormon Church that they claimed said our ancestor was born in Ohio.

However, all of the surviving offical documents say Paulina Hunter was from California.

One of our relatives contacted the International Geneaology Index in Utah and an official of the Index wrote back and confirmed that the Index is merely a listing of names and it is not intended to be used as an historical source.

The official at the Index said that people have to go to the source documents and not their Index for historical documentation.

So when the CPP contended in one of the submissions against our family that the search of the public record shows our family was from Ohio and probably not even Indian, which by the way they don't bring up anymore because we proved that point wrong, they were attempting to pull a fast one and fool the enrollment committee into believing an out and out falsehood.

Because even the enrollment committee biased against our family knew they couldn't use the International Geneaology Index listing as evidence against us because if there was any proof that it was true, I am sure they would have noted that in our Record of Decision as a reason for kicking us out of the tribe.

This submission by the CPP is listed in the documents reviewed in our disenrollment case but it had no relevance whatsoever in the committee's ruling.

Notice how our resident critic who pops in here from time to time, who I believe may very well be the person who tried to pass off the Ohio listing as being our ancestor, never mentions Ohio anymore as he knows it is an even more blantant of a lie than any of the other hearsay that was presented against us.

Luiseno said...

The point is, is that NONE of the so called "evidence" that origionaly was submitted to the enrollment committee was never used to disenroll us. This "evidence" was used by the enrollment committee as reason to start our disenrollment. And we were asked to submit evidence to refute it, which we did. We were instructed that no other evidence would be accepted after our original submission. Then they use a whole new set of reasons to disenroll us, reasons we were never made aware of, and of course they would not accept any more submissions of evidence after our original submission. The reasons for our disenrollment were very easy to refute, but we were not allowed to do so, nor question any of part of it.

Its like if you were sent a notice that you were going to be deported because someone said that you were an illegal alien. You are asked to submit evidence to show your U.S. citizenship. You bring in your birth certificate, Mothers/Fathers birth certificates, lineage information, etc. But you get deported anyway because they claim that this only shows your heritage connection to California, which they claim wasn't always a part of the USA. They refuse to accept any further submission of information that shows the error of there thinking.

Anonymous said...

Hello all,

I get so upset when I hear about this! Something needs to be done. I am just afraid of the aftermath.

Andrew Corban

'aamokat said...

In going to the International Geneaology Index Web site and to one of there family centers that is at a Mormon Church, where they have a data base of their Index listings, I found that the listing that the CPP falsely tried to pass off as our ancestor was submitted by a member of the Mormon Church after 1991.

So far I haven't been able to find out who made that submission but it wouldn't surprise me if it was deliberately made by a Pechanga CPP member in an attempt to provide false evidence that they could use against our family.

So Mr. Potato Head, are you or have you ever been a member of the Mormon Church?

Libel and slander big time I would think.

Erick Rhoan said...

That's horrible to hear that more of this stuff is going on!

How long do tribes think they're going to be able to do this without others taking notice?

Anonymous said...

So its 7 days later than the first post...was this a hoax?..or is another family getting the "Indian walk" they give the fired workers at the Casino?

cideways said...

I heard information was turned in on the Garboni's and another family from the Rez. but the current enrollment committee threw it out. So I guess the cpp has to regroup and see what enrollment committee members need to recuse themselves so they can go through with their disenrollments. I would like to hear more of this issue.

'aamokat said...

If what cideways heard is true, that information was turned in to the enrollment committee for the disenrollment of the Garbonis and another family, then it shows what total disregard the CPP has for the constitution and laws of the Pechanga tribe.

The Band's constitution says the general membership is the final authority in all matters of tribal government and the general membership passed the petition in July 2005 that says, "THE DISENROLLMENT PROCEDURES ARE REPEALED EFFECTIVE JUNE 19, 2005."


Not only that, even the tribal council, in its March 2006 letter to the general membership that says the Hunters were not included in the new law to end disenrollments, said, "AS THE PETITION WAS PASSED BY A MAJORITY OF THE PECHANGA GENERAL MEMBERSHIP, THE DISENROLLMENT PROCEDURES ADOPTED BY THE TRIBE ON OCTOBER 1, 1988 ARE NOW REPEALED AND NO LONGER EXIST AS TRIBAL LAW (except as noted above)."

I believe the the CPP coerced the tribal council into unlawfully not including my family in the 2005 petition to end all disenrollments but if they are still trying to disenroll even more people now in 2009, then it is an even more blatant attempt to circumvent the laws of the Pechanga tribe and the will of the Pechanga people.


Anonymous said...

F pechanga soo called leaders leaders!!!!!!!!!
u were wrong
spirits are shamed by u
ur actions were wrong
free ur people!!!!!
do the right thing
we r watching!!
Garboni's "false clan" has got no doc's to show lineage/ NO LAND!! (check them out)& obviously made a deal to save their PER DIEM -NASTY CASINO SELL OUTS!!. Fu k'ed their brothers-HUNTERS/ thnkx Leee dona!!!! & ur fAM!!! How do u sleep at night!!!!! Need PILLS???
Hunters had ur back what a mistake!!!!!!!!

'aamokat said...

Anonymous of April 12, 2009, don't do to other people what the CPP did to us, make assumptions without facts to back them up.

There is someone named Josefa Garboni listed in the allotment records as receiving allotment number 77 and I have seen the name Garboni in some of the early census records in the late 1800's.

Did the Garbonis do anything though to help us, the Hunters, after we, as you said, had their backs?

Well, yes and no because reportedly a Garboni was one of the votes in our favor on the enrollment committee during our disenrollment case but, as far as I know, they like most of the tribe have done nothing to speak out about the injustice that was done to us since then.

However, sir or madam, just the facts please.

Anonymous said...

Here are some facts....go into Pechanga and you will notice a couple things...number one- it is pretty empty...not just empty of customers...but empty of slot machines...the tribe has removed hundreds and hundreds of now see huge areas of empty guess is that they dont want to pay tax to the State., so they simply removed the machines...number two-..they have made most of the machines penny and nickels...finding dollar machines is not so easy anymore..and finding jackpots is even rarer...this should have been a busy holiday weekend...but it was very quiet at the casino...with the loss of revenue from less machines and way less know they have the win cycle cranked very low and soon will either have to reduce the per capita or kick out another large family....WHOS NEXT???

Anonymous said...

anonymous poster regarding Pam T. that was hilarious! I too was employed by "her" department, she is not the one running the show, the fat hawaiian lady is, Pam just gets the blame or praise for it. Don't fault her for being the puppet on the Hawaiian's string! I hope their corruption covers corruption mentality usually comes back 10 fold...if that does happen I say we barbque across the street and watch the walk of shame for them!
that would be a sight some have waited 4 or 5 yrs to see!
The Hawaiian lady is verbally abusive and threatening to employees and nobody in that place has stopped any of it, even when presented with the paper trail.