Friday, March 13, 2015

Gabrielenos FIGHT BACK on Pechanga Tribe's Takeover of Ancestor's Remains; San Nicolas Island Dispute UPDATE

We reported earlier on the Pechanga Band of Luiseno Indians Indians and it's chairman Mark Macarro's usurpation of the ancestral homelands of the Gabrieleno people.

This disgraceful action is not going unanswered by the Gabrieleno people.  See that story: Pechanga Has NO Cultural Affiliation to San Nicolas Island

Chairman Andrew Salas, of the Kizh Nation Gabrieleno Band has forwarded me some documents that they will be providing the U.S. Navy, which should help them recover the remains of their people.


At this link, are the historical boundaries of the Chumash and Gabrieleno people. There is NO EVIDENCE of Luiseno or Pechanga in this historical record.  The report is detailed archaeology and deserves more weight than any oral history of the current Pechanga "elders" some who have NO blood of Pechanga.

Channel Island Language Groups
NO Pechanga
Here is from a comment on the previous article:   The Luiseno have an intact oral history that describes their territory within Southern California, I got one tend to believe and side with tribal knowledge and cultural understandings of history that is handed down generationaly, not the non-Indian Western derived ideologies that forced Indigenous people into the social ills that plagued a lot of tribal communities. Stop mixing hatred, ideology, and your own agenda to promote an erasure of the truth or at the least frustrating the situation. Pamela Munroe knows what she is doing, I am thinking so do the Luiseno and the Pechanga Band.

My response to this bullshit above is that the current leaders of Pechanga make up their history.  They have been PROVEN to IGNORE both written and oral history in the Paulina Hunter matter.  Therefore, they are ill equipped to provide historical analysis on territory so far outside their own.

We will continue to report on this issue and expect to hear more from the Kizh, and the Navy, as the theft of ancestry of the Nicolenos cannot stand.

UPDATE:   Have already heard back from Victor Rocha, Chairman Mark Macarro's first cousin, who runs a Native news site, after including him with news organizations: 

34 comments:

O Pechanga said...

Heard back from Pechangadotnet owner Victor Rocha on my email to newspeople:

Victor Rocha Today at 11:29 AM
To: me
Lose my email address.

Guess my story won't be on his website.

Anonymous said...

Haha,.

Anonymous said...

Did you really expect it to be?

White Buffalo said...

I would appreciate the contact information for this person who sides with Pechanga. I think this person need to know the other, real oral history. of our families.

Anonymous said...

When you use my comments, do not rearticulate their intent. I am siding with how I understand the federal law, NAGPRA, tribal knowledge, and current research. I for one do not "side" with anyone, I am merely stating facts relevant to understanding Luiseno knowledge of themselves, as I am Luiseno as well. Disrespecting Prof. Munro and the Pechanga Band is not how to discuss this issue, neither is misconstruing my comments. When I comment about oral history, I am not talking about current Western modes of knowledge production or methodology, which are shrouded and driven within bias and misrepresented ideologies concerning Native people, nor am I discussing oral testimony of family lineages that implicate "belonging" I am talking about something older and much more universal, something that is not owned by any one Band or tribe, but that is embedded within the culture of the Luiseno people. Luiseno knowledge of self, place, and belonging cannot nor should it be found in any book, lecture, 100 year old anthropology article or legal document. I am discussing the Luiseno ways of knowing, Luiseno worldview, and Luiseno knowledge. That knowledge is distinct from Western knowledge and I was not commenting or making a political statement about blood quantum, disenrollment, politics, or the law. I was commenting on the protection of human remains and culturally significant objects. I was only hoping that a federally recognized tribe with ancestral connections to Southern California could possible save all of those humans, objects, and places from continued desecration and destruction. Since I now know the climate and "reasoning" of people on this blog, I won't make any more "ridiculous" and outrageous comments.

Luiseno said...

" I was commenting on the protection of human remains and culturally significant objects. I was only hoping that a federally recognized tribe with ancestral connections to Southern California could possible save all of those humans, objects, and places from continued desecration and destruction."

I understood and agree that we need to stand up and protect those who came before us, after all they are our brothers and sisters. I think most people on this blog understood and agree, we just wish it could have been someone who would respect them, and not the kind of Indian who would turn our ancestors burial places and other sacred sites into a spectacle such as a golf course .

White Buffalo said...

To March 13, 2015 at 9:05 PM;

I understand the intent of your message, yet I wonder if you do. You speak of Luiseño as an ancient entity. Well I beg do differ, for the name Luiseño is a product of the Spanish missionaries who settled here starting in the 1500s via the Gulf of Mexico. The name was given to those family/tribes that currently use the name.

As for Oral history. We Apis know our history. I remember when those exalted members of Pechanga came to my grandfathers house in the early 80s to have him walk them through the grave yard of past lines of lineage. You are aware that his fist cousin Francis Miranda was there taking notes. We know that you and those who used your authority and power in a corrupt manner have changed our history and have devalued our family and all of our ancestors to the point of irrelevancy. If it was not four our ancestor Pablo and his family the tribe would not have a place for your precious casino. I think you and the rest of the tribe have forgotten what it means to be a true Indian.

Money can not buy you integrity, peace, spirituality, harmony with your environment, well being, or community. Remember these are the basic principals that our people once lived by. These are not western ideals that you mentioned they are part of the oral tradition that has been handed down over time. One last question do you know any of the dances that were used before the time of the Missions. If you do then I might believe some of the things you say.

Anonymous said...

F#!k the spanish..cancer to all of them!

Anonymous said...

Right on white buffalo

Anonymous said...

Do the Gabrieleno Tongva factions even talk to each other?

It's no wonder Pechanga swooped in to fill the vacuum...

Anonymous said...

White Buffalo, when I say the term Luiseno, I mean "the people of the West." You can argue all you want about semantics and linguistics, but you are missing the point. Understanding community history and family lineages is important. But, I am speaking about something that pre-designed the Spanish, Euro-Americans in California, and the creation of the Pechanga Reservation through federal law and policy. Obviously, you see or hear only what you want and that lens always goes back to the same argument concerning tribal eligibility to membership. Blood quantum, eligibility to membership, and federal recognition are modern Western ideas that current tribes adopted to protect their resorts and to more easily identify their citizens in today's world. What I am discussing is the flawed reasoning in connecting disenrollment, federal laws and protections of human remains, and your interpretation of what constitutes "Luiseno" knowledge. I have no idea who your family is or what their lineage represents, I am not directing my comments towards your family narrative, I am simply pointing out that the larger story of Creation that is still alive, unfolding, and very much real should frame how we interact with our past, present, and future.

Anonymous said...

If pechangadotnet were a legitimate news source Victor R. would fly this story without bias. If it were not for Indian Gaming the Pechanga tribe would have eventually become extinct, no wonder they need to steal another tribe's legacy.

Anonymous said...

I guess what you are saying is that since the current Pechanga government and tribe does not recognize your family and it's connections to the larger Luiseno story, that the Pechanga Band severed your lineage to the larger story of Luiseno people, they should not be the leading entity or authority in understanding how older groups were once connected, that because they flawed in understanding your local family lineage connection to the Luiseno people, how can they speak about older connections between related groups.

Anonymous said...

Bottom line is that Macarro and his cronies are straight out thiefs. Stealing not only millions of dollars from real Tribal members,, but also people's history. And your fancy wording doesn't change the facts.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me, for I am not fully versed on this matter. As a Luiseno person, I have always heard the oral story that Luiseno's occupied the islands. Is Pehcnaga the only tribe contesting? Or are the many other Luiseno tribes in the southern California also contesting and supporting Pechanga?

Anonymous said...

I believe that tribes have the right to decide who belongs and who does not. If individuals do not meet the eligibility requirements then they should not be tribal citizens. If individuals are excluded due to not being eligible and that determination is dangerous for the existence of the tribe, I think the tribe should decide how they will secure and preserve their future, nobody else. The tribal government is the elected body and if you don't like their decisions/laws change them. Pechanga's requirement for enrollment is one of the most relaxed in Southern California, they don't even require blood quantum.

Anonymous said...

Pechanga is so relaxed they don't even follow their tribal constitution or by laws on enrollment or disenrollment.

Anonymous said...

Pechanga is so relaxed they don't even follow rulings voted on and passed by the General membership (the ruling body of the Tribe). The Tribe DID decide who belonged by a vote of the People. The tribal government or the elected body ruled that the General Membership had no say in enrollment matters, an out and out lie.

Anonymous said...

Not only did the Pechanga Tribal council and spokesman Macarro go against the General Membership on a vote, they went against custom and tradition of the band. Anyone who questioned them on these actions were threatened if they did not allow these actions. Dishonoring Ancestors rights and elders rights and hold power while violating custom tradition and bylaws is how the truth is being broadcast. Lies cant justify these acts.

abraxas said...

This story is a terrific example of what the old Mighty Dollar can do to the Native indians who learn the White mans ways. I will use this site to show my Class room students that it is Not only our Race (White) who have changed History, Now we have the First Nations people doing it. All the historical information my students have gathered confirms the Gabrieleno connection as the heirs to the Nicoleno people. I challenged my students and now to Mr. Mocoro to provide the historical data connecting the Luisueno to San Nicolas Island.

White Buffalo said...

March 15, 2015 at 12:08 PM

I understand clearly the message you are attempting to sell, but Pechanga cannot have it both ways. You either accept the idea that we Indians have lived in the land for thousands of years or you use the current criteria that you must have been a member of the original families that were moved off of our ancestor's property. I have heard the testimony from Marc about ten thousands of years of possessing the land, yet he and the tribe define themselves starting in 1874. Your concept is noble and I do agree with your statement. Pechanga does not. If they did we would still be enrolled, the Hunters would still be enrolled and the Tosibals would be enrolled. How can you sell your statement when the facts surrounding our disenrollment are actively hidden and history is changed to suit those current council members? As to going back to the same argument I have never left it. We have not been allowed to have our grievances and evidence presented in a meaningful way to a mediator or arbitrator that is impartial and independent of the tribe. I think you do not understand what it means to have your whole identity and history taken away from you, and then you and your family not having any way to regain the cultural status of who you are. We are Indian and our ancestors fit in to the model that you describe, but it appears that you are the one judging us unfairly, for it appears you are using the same standards as the tribe does. What is lost is this is real life with real life consequences.

Reinstatement_Restitution said...

Yes White Buffalo, your argument is clearly stated. If the Luisenos extended to the coastal islands and all the peoples in between are connected, then the disenrollees and moratorium people belong too. The Pechanga Band cannot have it both ways, and makes this claim both dubious and deceitful.

That is where these definitions conflict. The Pechanga Band wants to use the broad definition of indigenous peoples who inhabited the land before European settlers invaded the territory to establish connections between tribes that were separated linguistically, culturally, and geographically. At the same time the Pechanga Band wants to use the limited definition of federal recognition of those Indians that inhabited the reservation to exclude people who have linguistic, cultural, and geographic connection to the Temecula tribe. Even beyond these connections there are well established historical, racial, and familial connections that have been abandoned and ignored.

How can a tribe that abandons and harms their living relations be trusted to preserve and hold sacred the remains of people to whom they have no connections?

Anonymous said...

Can anyone imprison a nation forever? F-you Macarro !

Anonymous said...

The Book has been written and the Bad Actors are being highlighted again. Come on Macarro et al, follow custom and tradition. Honor ALL Ancestors rights and ALL the good will flow easier. Start fixing the flaws that have been made under your own boat. Do good things inside, settle the liars club issues and honor ALL ANCESTORS and their heirs.

Anonymous said...

Did he Chumash get involved at all?

Anonymous said...

I Think something that is being overlooked is that tribal law governs tribal membership, not state law, not federal law, and not cultural, social, or historical ideas. Sure, the latter may inform decisions of how to apply understandings of tribal law, but ultimately the tribe decides who belongs, how they belong, and what benefits they receive regardless if the decisions are good or bad, that is how tribes sustain themselves and ensure their future. Now, the idea of how tribes recognize their members is the problem. Blood quantum, lineal descent, born on the rez, male lineage, and adopted members all make up ways that tribes recognize citizenship. The days of familial socio-cultural interaction and religious clan reciprocity no longer govern Southern California tribal social life. I believe that tribal communities need to make these decisions on how to protect their resources, and that decision is nobody else to make.

Anonymous said...

That's the real problem. Our Ancestors had to follow outside decisions and today our customs and traditions are funneled by a few and not ALL. If the Bad Actors don't agree with ALL they just focus on themselves and dishonor our Ancestors and we are ALL here. Why is it ok that a few make the decision for ALL and say if you don't agree you can be next? Disrespecting our elders to justify greedy actions is yours. Live with your choices if you believe its ok to shake the Acorns from the tree, and rake some up and let the rest rot away. The Oak tree is here with many branches, its been here for decades. Lie or tell the truth and live with it.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully, the Gabrielenos can find the will to fight for their ancestors....

Luiseno said...

Pardon me if I am wrong, but I think you are a bit confused. You say " I Think something that is being overlooked is that tribal law governs tribal membership, not state law, not federal law, and not cultural, social, or historical ideas." , and I agree that it should, but what happens when this WAS NOT followed. The General Membership DID vote and attempted to decide who belonged. It was the elected counsel who ruled that the main body of the Tribe had no say in enrollment , and in secret meetings (after suspending further General Member meetings) with armed guards decided to throwout the vote of the people, and determined that the Tribe had no say in enrollment matters. Those who tried to complain were threatened with disenrollment.

Tribal Law was not followed on many many levels.

Anonymous said...

That is the whole truth. Macarro et al only follows custom and tradition if it benefits the bad actors outcome. If the plate was turned they would say the same thing. Some of us will allow the Creator to finish the book and the Bad Actors can face the truth one way or another. The truth is crystal clear. Just because custom and tradition has been broken, does not mean we ALL have to stay with the Bad Actors story. 9yrs of lies and misinformation broadcast. Karma plays it's own part in the whole story.

Anonymous said...

GOOD JOB GABRIELENOS FIGHT BACK! MAKE SOME NOISE...

Anonymous said...

Fight back with what. These people can't get their own tribe right.

Anonymous said...

Rocha is a scumbag, he doesn't show the truth of Pechanga's deceits...

Anonymous said...

who is headman of the Gabrielenos?