Friday, April 9, 2010

Pechanga Denies Basic Human Rights to Many Tribal Members, the Story


In case people lose sight of what the tribal council of the now Pechanga Band of Luiseno Indians have done to their membership, here's some detail from a petition to Congress. I've changed some time frames, and comments in parentheses.

It was legal for South Africa to practice Apartheid and it was right for the United States to follow the Congressional Black Caucus' mandate to boycott their business and country. Similarly it would be right and just for the people of California to avoid doing business with tribes like Pechanga, Picayune, Redding Enterprise, San Pascual until they give the basic human and civil right back to the people.

In the course of the last 5 years, the Pechanga Tribal Officials (led by Mark Macarro and Russell "Butch" Murphy) have taken action to reduce its membership by nearly 25%. In 2004, 130+ adult members and their immediate families were disenrolled from the Pechanga Band. The members were all descendants of Chief Pablo Apish, a historically significant leader of the Pechanga/Temecula people. (These are family members of enrollment committee member Frances Miranda) None of the members were allowed to participate in the 2004 tribal elections as a result of their disenrollment. (clearly an act to control the voting results, similar to removing 15% of the voters of a state)

An additional extended family of approximately 100 adults (Hunter Family) was disenrolled in March 2006 when tribal officials determined that the ancestor from whom they are lineally descended from was not an Original Pechanga/Temecula person. This determination was made despite the fact that a report prepared by a well known anthropologist (Dr. John Johnson) hired by the Band’s Enrollment Committee concluded she was a Pechanga/Temecula person.

The expulsions of the 2 families removed significant opposition to the current administration and others running for tribal office as they represented large voting blocks whose views differed from or opposed the current tribal Chairperson and a majority of the Tribal Council.
The actions of the tribal officials responsible for this “reduction in membership” have violated tribal and federal laws enacted to protect the basic rights and privileges of the individual Indian victims.
Specifically, the members were denied the due process and equal rights protections provided in the Indian Civil Rights Act, as well as language in the Band’s Constitution and Bylaws which mandates that tribal officials uphold the individual rights of each member without malice or prejudice. Tribal members were also subjected to ex post facto laws; denied participation in the electoral process; had personal property taken without cause or just compensation; and are being denied their right to practice their religion. Pechanga tribal officials have continually attempted to mislead the public regarding their actions to deny individual rights by claiming “it is an internal matter”.

In fact, Pechanga Chairman Macarro was quoted in the local newspaper as saying, "What goes on internally at Pechanga is of no business to the white man, …" It is this type of arrogance, coupled with the violations of individual rights, which must be stopped before it spreads even further. The denial or taking of any individual’s basic human and civil rights cannot merely be brushed aside by categorizing it as “an internal matter”. In fact, such characterization should be cause for alarm and seen as an act by the oppressors to further violate the rights of the victim.

Until such time as the basic rights of all individual Indian people are recognized and upheld on par with those of other citizens, a growing number of individual Indians will be subjected to the same types of arbitrary and unjust acts which have been committed by Pechanga tribal officials- acts which were intended to be outlawed decades ago. Based on their actions, we request that the Federal Government conduct an investigation of the Pechanga tribal officials for their continued gross violations of human and civil rights, and subject these officials to the most severe criminal sanctions allowed. Cultural genocide should not be tolerated by anyone and should be fought by all.

It is in the best interest of all people- Indian and non-Indian alike- that any violations of human and/or civil rights be addressed promptly and the violators be stopped before there are additional victims to their crimes.

The Pechanga Band of Luiseno Indians, which hijacked the Temecula Band of Luiseno Indian's federal recognition, is well known for terminating Indians from their rightful place in the tribe. Since the advent of casino gaming Pechanga's disenrollment of 230 adults from the tribe is second only to the Picayune Rancheria in the termination of Native Americans in CA.


O Pechanga said...

From our cousin Aamokat, more evidence:

Here are some examples of what we turned in that showed that we met the requirments of having to be direct lineal descendants of an original Pechanga Temecula person.

1. census records from the 1890's, the first censuses of the reservation, that showed our ancestor Paulina Hunter resided on the reservation from 1893 until 1899, the year of her death.

2. A land patent from the United States government that lists her as a Temecula Indian that gave us our Pechanga land allotment for allotment number 62, which we still own and many of us still live on.

3. probate records from the early 1900's for Paulina Hunter's land in which recognized Pechanga elders gave testimony that she was a Pechanga Indian and that she lived not only on the Pechanga reservation but in the village before the reservation was created.

4. A notarized statement from Pechanga tribal elder Antonio Ashman, called a vaunted tribal elder in the Pechanga tribe's own website, in which he states that he knew Paulina Hunter as being a member of the Pechanga Band.

4. Notarized statements by seven current tribal elders who stated that they have always recognized us as being Pechanga people.

Also the process itself was unfair and For example:

1. We were not allowed to have our attorneys present at any of our hearings.

2. We were not allowed to take notes at hearings or record any of the proceedings. I actually have a letter on tribal council letterhead that says we couldn't even bring pens or pencils!

3. We were not allowed copies of any hearing transcripts. How can anyone mount a proper defense if you don't have any record of what was said?

4. there were documents in the Record of Decision that we never saw beforehand that we were not allowed to respond to.

4.Pechanga law itself was ignored when the tribal council circumvented a 2005 law that outlawed disenrollment as a part of Pechanga law but we were disenrolled in 2006 anyway.

(Note: In addition there were other examples of Pechanga law not followed.)

DNA tests would only show that we are descendants of local Luiseno Indians and that isn't disputed by the tribe.

The tribe never concluded that we aren't such descendants just, wrongly I believe, that we aren't Pechanga people.

The main evidence against us were statements from three current tribal elders, all from a faction that calls itself The Concerned Pechanga People (The CPP) who claimed we are not Pechanga people. These people were NOT alive when Paulina Hunter was. That's hearsay only and incorrect at that.

(Note: the enrollment committee had a majority of its members from this faction. Their decision was not impartial).

Also some historical docments have been missing for over 150 years a fact that the tribe's own hired expert, Dr. John Johnson, explained that any Pechanga person with ancestors from this period would not be able to located.

Luiseno said...

There is also a growing group of indians, one that is comprised of indians who have been recognized as members by there tribe for hundreds of years. Who were alotted land on there reservation at its creation and still live on the alotted lands today but are being disenrolled by there tribes by the many hundreds.

Our family has been recognized as members of the tribe for over 100 years according to the records on file with the BIA. It is a fact that our ancestor was an indian that lived in the origional indian village. She was also recognized by members of that tribe as a member via witnessed and certified documents of that period. She was also evicted along with the rest of the tribe from that village and moved to the area known as Pechanga to live with them.

One of the most revered and respected members of the Tribe most recently wrote before his death in a signed and wittnessed document stating that he knew her persionally as a member of the tribe. Members who were alive at the time also said they knew her persionally as a member of the Tribe, they also gave signed wittnessed documents stating that they knew her as a member.

Now more than a hundred years after her death, people are trying to say that she was some other kind of indian, who just happened to live with the tribe in the origional village, and the people from that tribe mistakenly believed she was a member. They say that she just happended to be kicked out of the origional village to move to Pechanga with the rest of the Tribe to live. That the government was mistaken to give her a allotment on the reservation as a Temecula Pechanga Indian. That she is listed on the origional Pechanga Reservation records as a Temecula Pechanga indian is also a mistake (that I might add happened year after year, every year until her death). That tribal members from the period were mistaken when they gave signed wittnessed depositions stating that they knew her as a member of the tribe.

The enrollment committee also hired Dr John Johnson, curator of Anthropology at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History in California to check on her. But much to there dismay he came back with a report saying that he was 90% sure (he now says he is 100% sure) that she was a Pechanga indian.

You might ask why hasn't the rest of the Tribe tried to put a stop it. Well they DID try a few years back, in the largest gathering of our Tribe in recorded history. They voted to STOP ALL dissenrollments and remove the disenrollment process from Tribal law by a HUGE margin.

Well this so shocked those in power that they stopped ALL tribal meetings for the next few months, and in secret behind armed closed doors, decided to overthrow the vote of the people and disenroll our family (almost 200 of us) anyways. With such a HUGE voting block now disenrolled they now have assured there control and take over of the tribe.

Allen L. Lee said...

Good job, Luiseno,
Well said and on target. So the ancestors made a mistake when they recognized P.Hunter as a member of their tribe? They didn't care back then which hill she came over.
We can not correct the errors of our ancestors retroactively. Likewise, we can not hold descendants accountable for the errors of ancestors.
We can, however, correct our mistakes in our time.

Carol said...

Horrible civil rights violation! Hard to believe these monkey courts can prevail in todays society.

'aamokat said...

Mr. Lee, I really take exception to parts of your last comment.

"Good job, Luiseno,
Well said and on target. So the ancestors made a mistake when they recognized P.Hunter as a member of their tribe? They didn't care back then which hill she came over.
We can not correct the errors of our ancestors retroactively. Likewise, we can not hold descendants accountable for the errors of ancestors.
We can, however, correct our mistakes in our time."

First of all our ancestor Paulina Hunter did not come over some other hill to be at Pechanga so we don't have to be held accountable for errors of our ancestors as there were no errors on the part of our tribe back in the historical period or within our family.

In fact all surviving documents say our family are Temecula Pechanga Indians from Temecula.

What we maintain is that we didn't get a fair trial and that a biased slim one vote majority on both the enrollment committee and on the tribal council ignored every piece of evidence that supported our tribal membership.

And both elders from the historical period from the 1800's and current elders not related to and/or part of the CPP faction of the tribe confirmed we are who we say we are, legitimate Temecula Pechanga tribal members.

Carolyn said...

We must keep pushing to be heard - the US government's human rights record is now under UN review. Article 9 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile." To be banished and disenrolled from our tribes is to be "arbitrarily exiled" - exiled from our families, our religion, our homes, from our dreams, our songs and the futures of our families and the elders whom it is our honor to serve and protect. We are being exiled from our sacred sites from our ancestors resting places and the places where are spirits are nourished. Our exiles are a death sentence and they can no longer be ignored as an "internal dispute" - disputes are arguments. We can not even engage in an internal dispute when we have been exiled from our land and homes.


Anonymous said...

When i read the story about the Pechanga People I thought this sounds so familiar! The Snoqualmie Tribal council did not reinvent the wheelwhen they got greedy and forgot their Indian ways, they didn't have to they unfortunately copied Mark Macarro's way of doing tribal business. I believe that because Snoqualmie Tribal council's needs are not met, they can not meet the needs of the people they are supposed to protect. I believe there are influences that make these Indians not act like real Indians. How do you turn your back on one of your brothers or sisters in need? I can tell you that most of the Tribal council that Snoqualmie has now need alot of intervention. There are alot of issues that need tobe addressed like alcoholism, drug addictions and the adultery that happens is a shame. we are supposed to look up to the men on tribal council but they drink, do drugs and one is not faithful to his Indian bride, disgraceful!

Allen L. Lee said...

Get a grip 'aamokat,
The point was "so what if she did come from over the hill" Obviously, someone is holding you accountable for the "errors" of Pechanga ancestors, that's why you have been dis-enrolled
I was responding to the statement by Luiseno which was:
“…Now more than a hundred years after her death, people are trying to say that she was some other kind of indian, who just happened to live with the tribe in the origional village, and the people from that tribe mistakenly believed she was a member….”
Don't know how that statement causes you to take exception to me, but don't care either
That “other kind of Indian” is most likely from this source:
“…former tribal chairman Vince Belasco Ibanez
Ibanez told the committee the Madariagas came from the San Gabriel Mission and Paulina Hunter wasn't an Indian at all. He congratulated them for "beating these impostors and all the others too."

The facts show several pre-contact indigenous villages that no doubt were forced to re-establish community ties as a result of Spanish Missionization, Mexican Secularization, and American Conquest, so I say again, “So What If She Came From Over The Hill “ She was recognized as Pechanga by the same resources that validate oher recognized descendants. Don't care if she was adopted from another people, Indian or non-Indian in 1979, or met Cabrillo in San Diego 1542. No case for an argument even if she wasn’t based on:
“In August of 2006, Macarro issued a written statement on the case. …The fact is that disenrollments occurred long before Pechanga ever opened its gaming facility.”
History suggests exactly the opposite. For most of the 20th century, Indian tribes struggled desperately to find, recruit and include new members in order to gain official federal recognition. “

“…No one knows when the Luiseño Indians first settled at Temecula, although it is thought to have been around 1000 A.D., and there is disagreement as to the exact location of the Indian Village. In the legends of their origin the Luiseño say they came down from the north in a group to Temecula, called by them "Ekva Temeko," said to mean "the place where the sun breaks through and shines on the white mist." From Temecula the Luiseño dispersed southward and west ward.
…The old Mission rancho of Temecula had been divided after secularization, the larger part being confirmed to Luis Vignes in 1859. The smaller portion was granted to Pablo Apis, a Luiseño Indian of Temecula who had been educated at the Mission San Luis Rey. This grant is one of those rare instances where a rancho was granted to an Indian.

At some point in time, based on Temeku legend, everybody came over the hill to become Temecula Indians.
This last one is for those race-baiting naysayers who keep dogging Diane Watson for not doing anything for California Indians

“The former members have caught the attention of Rep. Diane Watson, D-Los Angeles. Watson has been among the most outspoken members of Congress to support disenrolled members of various tribes.
On Friday in Washington, she convened a panel on the plight of the Cherokee freedmen, descendants of slaves of the tribe who were granted status as members in an 1866 treaty but kicked out earlier this year.
She said the Cherokee and Pechanga cases were closely linked in that both, at their roots, were about people being denied deserved status.”

I know your knee-jerking about me talking to someone else about
“your people” and your “blood” thing, but I really don’t care. My point is that it is not our place as modern people to determine that our ancestors made mistakes and hold the descendants accountable.

Anonymous said...


Soverignty gotta luv it huh??

No rights to non-members!!

t'eetilawuncha! said...

From: Anonynous March 7, 2010 2:18 AM,


Soverignty gotta luv it huh??

No rights to non-members!!

Sorry, but the are no rights to Members or non-members. If you were paying attention, you would see your rights are violated also.

The big one that comes to mind is the council memo from 2005 that said it is that enrollment committee who decides enrollment issues not the General membership. This Memo stripped your rights as a voting member, and made Murphy Lines membership null and void. The Murphys went before the General membership to be accepted in the indian way. According to the current council the General membership does not decide membership issues.

Anonymous said...

...this is not about SOVEREIGNTY you anonymous bozo!!!
Don't WAAAA WAAA WAAA us... you will be next if the indiscriminate tribal council rule changes continue!
They will eat their own!!!!

cideways said...

They already have eaten their own, who do you think the disenrolled members are? They were once long standing members enrolled in 1979 in the first enrollment process, they were Pechanga residents long before there was the almighty Pechanga resort and Casino. They were there long before President Macarro decided to move to Temecula. Just out of curiosity why doesn't Mark live on the Rez? I've never seen him past the Government center?

Ask the trees, ask the grape vines, ask the wind, who does this land belong to? Who are your ancestors?

werone said...

The current Pechanga tribal council could use "SOVEREIGNTY" as our ancestors would have wanted. Sovereignty should not be used to violate tribal law.

Since the Pechanga tribal council has twisted the will of the General membership, and used Sovreignty as shield to immune these actions. That's what has weakend its meaning, for all indian communities.

Anonymous said...

Wow that Allen L Lee is long winded...has anybody ever contacted 60 Minutes or Dateline?..and how about the owners of these sports teams that plaster Pechanga advertising on everything? you think they know about the human rights these tribal leaders have violated?

'aamokat said...

Allen Lee said, That “other kind of Indian” is most likely from this source:
“…former tribal chairman Vince Belasco Ibanez
Ibanez told the committee the Madariagas came from the San Gabriel Mission and Paulina Hunter wasn't an Indian at all. He congratulated them for "beating these impostors and all the others too."

Mr. Lee, my 'blood thing' is not hearsay which is what convicted child molestor Ibanez's statement is and has been directly contradicted by other very credible current Pechanga elders not part of the CPP faction such as Norman Pico Sr and Marie Russell, among others, as well as elders from the historical period of the 1800s such as Antonio Ashman, Dolores Tortuga, and Jose David Rodriguez, who were there over 100 years ago and who would know who was Pechanga and who wasn't.

So I am just stating facts, which are backed up by the conclusion statement by Dr. John Johnson in his report commissioned by the enrollment committee on the ancestry of Paulina Hunter who said, "The preponderance of the evidence gathered from the suviving documents leads to the conclusion that Paulina Hunter was a tribal member of Temecula and Pechanga by virtue of her ancestry from the Luiseno villages of Toulepa and Temecula."

Ironic that convicted child molestor Ibanez, who is profiled on the Megan's Law Website as a registered sex offender, while a member of the enrollment committee reportedly signed enrollment cards and paperwork of Hunter famuly members when they were enrolled years ago during open enrollment.

So if he really believed we never belonged, then why would he sign our paperwork unless he was committing perjury to pad the enrollment rolls before the casino came along?

Either way he isn't very credible source.

The San Gabriel Mission connection, which has nothing to do with Pechanga enrollment, has to do with the fact that there are Hunter family members who are related on the other side of the family to the Gabrielleno Indians of that misssion.

That this has no relavance to Pechanga enrollment can be compared to the fact that for example the Magee family, who have people who are current tribal members, are related to Irish people on the other side of their family and other families who are related to non Pechanga people on the other side of their families as well.

Mr. Lee I know you may think that bloodlines have no relevance to current enrollment issues if people have been recognized for over 100 years by their respective tribes and while in principle I would agree with that, especially in the Cherokee Freedmen situation, my exception to your statement is based on the fact that there is no credible evidence that suggests we are not Pechanga by blood and yes it is important because it is the truth.

Besides, even in the Freedmen case, a lot of them are likely descendants of blood Cherokees themselves who ended up being listed as Freedmen instead of being listed on the Dawes roll.

Anonymous said...

The word of a convicted child molestor......
Doesn't that have a nice ring to it Mr Macarro?
Would you let Vince Ibanez baby sit your child?

Anonymous said...

Somebody asked if dateline or any other jouralistic program has been contacted regarding this plight. I've asked that on numerous occasions on this board, but nobody takes it up. The Pechanga Disenrolled are content to preach to the congretation rather than reach out to those in this big world and maybe seek and receive some help from caring people. Help is there but you gotta be heard and then go and seek it, if those that care can hear you, they will find and help you. If you sound off and let the world know of your pain and loss, someone will see your injustice and offer to assist you. I believe credible people will come forth to help you, even actors. You gotta be willing to tell your story consistantly over and over again, make congress take notice of you, speak up, now. If you truly want to fight this thing speak up loud and proud in any venue that you can. Or you can sit on this and other like bulletin boards and blah, blah, blah to all of us who have heard it all before and can do nothing but armchair quarterback for ya. I wich you all would launch protests at the venues that are sponserd by Pechanga and when you get interviewed as to why, tell your story, and keep on telling it to all who will listen to you. Please your david and Pechanga Casino is Goliath, what a story that will be.I wish y'all lotsa luck, but I do believe you got to get out there and talk your talk and walk your walk. You will get nowhere being stagnant and waiting for someone to do something...organize, united you stand divided you fall!

Allen L. Lee said...

Well 'aamokat I'll assume you didn't see the "Question Mark" on the end of the sentence:
"Good job, Luiseno,
Well said and on target. So the ancestors made a mistake when they recognized P.Hunter as a member of their tribe? " followed with:
"...They didn't care back then which hill she came over."
In other words, the people she lived with didn't say they made a mistake and the alleged "hill" was NOT an issue.
There was never a point were I asserted that she was not a blood Pechanga. Question marks don't represent statements of fact.
If you don't understand my statements, ask me to clarify them, but please don't mis-represent what I say.

White Buffalo said...

I take exception to the statement that we do nothing, yet it is possible that more can be done. Understand that there are only so many hours in a day. I Work and go to school as well as work on the things you suggest, but when uyou say is that we do nothing but preach I find that insulting I have been personaly fighting this battle for at least 6 years. You tell me a way that I can support my-self pay my bills and put food on the table without having to devote as much time as I do now. I would love to stand in front of Pechanga or the state capital or where ever and shout, speack, even wisper to andyone who would listen. I would also like to plaster the media with the truth about Pechanga but I have not the money. Will you who say I do nothing contribute to our cause a donation would prove that you are with us. I would make sure it was well spent to tarnish the almighty image of Pechanga. Untill you step up why dontl you shut up. I dont't think I will apologise if I hurt any feeling this time. I realy don't care if I am liked on this site.

Carolyn said...

I know this fight grows weary on everyone and at times we all feel paralyzed as we meet one dead end after another.

Everyday there are signs of encouragement for us that I believe our ancestors send to us if we are not blinded by our frustration to see them - I look for them and I take note of them.

Today I saw this: "If you're going through hell, keep going....." Winston Churchill.

Pechanga, I am going to Albuquerque, New Mexico to speak for all of us, to testify for all of us that have been illegally exiled from our tribes. If I were taken back into my tribe tomorrow and all forgiven there, I will never forget you and your struggle or stop fighting for your rights.

Because we make up less than 2% of the entire population in the United States, our struggles are not seen as important as the other 98% - but our voices will be heard.

I know justice will come. I pray for your strength and courage to keep fighting.

Banished Snoqualmie Elder

Anonymous said...

It is not that you do nothing,and I am not trying to insult your attempts. I am only saying there is more you can do. You can call dateline, Keith Olberman, Oprah, etc. and sell them your story, show them your docs, videos and selves. and if it is an interesting plight, They will do your story. You have to go to them with sincerity, and a plausible story (which you have), and present it in a legal, presuasive, heartfelt manner, people will have to hear you, people will have to be made to want to help you. If you can do this it will "enhance" your efforts and chances of opening up and putting on blast a wrong doing, that must be stopped. The lady in Las Vegas that won her tribal rights back did this, at all costs, she walked all alone in front of banks, the smoke shop, and any establishment that endorsed her tribe, all alone at times. She appeared on local television stations and made it into the local newspapers, she was determined. Her presentation wasn't ever wild, or boo-hoo woe is me, or give me $$$ it was one of sincerity, determination, and from a person that gave the public the impression that she was truely wronged. You guys can do this, if you oganize and go forth, just open up to more people. Good Luck.

Carolyn said...

I know you are right and thank-you for your encouragement. On our part, we have tried very hard to work this out within our tribe and by not doing the things you have suggested. It has not worked - even with our tribal members behind us we cannot move past the illegal, corrupt government that has taken over our tribe. I can see now, even though it is hurtful, that we have to do the things you have suggested. I wish it were not so, I wish we didn't have to. But we will!

Anonymous said...

Well, I have to agree, the Hunter family needs to contact Prime time. You are all very well versed in what has happened to you and have every document know to man. I say go for it. Its free and would bring a huge amount of media attention and with Opera Leaving soon, she is all about fixing things. I say try and if we all send emails to her on our plight, mostly those who have been disenrolled, what do we have to lose??

Who is willing.??? I think its a great plan.

sanjuan florist

stand your ground said...

to Allen Lee, March 14....
I never have any problems understanding you and OMG I actually like reading your posts.
If some people would stop reading into things that are not there, know what I mean...
keep posting...

stand your ground said...

got the date wrong Allen, March 6 post, not 14th

aamokat, you know your history well
but sometimes you need to chill out
a bit.
I like you... I am not being mean.

Allen L. Lee said...

I'm still with the struggle.
As I have always said, " A principle will stand or fall on it's own merits." Any personality issues are secondary. 'Aamokat is well versed in Pechanga genealogy and the evidence and chronolgy of how certain Pechanga's were dis-enrolled is a "smoking gun" for a rights violation. I have to support that because of the "Principle" regardless of what others may feel about me personally, or visa-versa.

'aamokat said...

I respect you Mr. Lee and I welcome your input, I just disagreed about a point you were making, no big deal.

Forever said...


Anonymous said...

still they wait.......



Anonymous said...

You all know what is wrong we all need to stand and fight to unite not standby and watch these corrupt non indians take over like they have make a criminal report to attourny generals office call all the media news to air the corruption of the Pechanga band and thier cohorts criminal intent of banishment Put your money where your mouth is UNITE TO FIGHT NOW

'aamokat said...

Forever said...

What is absurd about the moratorium, which should have been declared unconstitutional long ago because enrollment in the Temecula Band, sometimes referred to as the Pechanga Band, is supposed to be the first month of each year, is that even some people who had their applications in before the deadline still ended up in the moratorium.

Reportedly at a fairly recent meeting of the General Membership to discuss how to handle applcations found to have beaten the deadline, the tribe voted to not process those applications thus keeping those folks out of the tribe still.

Tribal members could be heard saying, "you mean we would have to share our money with those people?"

Anonymous said...

When will things change when we make it change stop the division UNITE NOW or Goliath will suceed David as it has been speak,fight take what is yours do not stop stand strong,who cares about the money we should be fighting the same fight for all they have stolen your lives ,your identity,your childrens and grandchildrens heritage UNITE FOR OUR TRIBE PLEASE ITS OUR ONLY WAY THE INDIAN WAY

Anonymous said...

One thing I wonder is the tribe has a rule that you can't have any breaks in your line; so what happens if they open the moratorium and there are now breaks in family lines because people have died. For that manner those who family has never been enrolled since the 1800s or early 1900s will they say you have breaks in your family line.

'aamokat said...

There was a provision in the enrollment application that asks for death certificates for ancestors that have died so I believe, if enrollment is fairly applied, that those people technically still would be allowed to be enrolled.

I have to reread my copy of the application and the constitution, which i don't have in front of me at the moment, but as I remember it, a break in the linage is from disenrollment or if your direct family member has been enrolled at another reservation.

So because of our illegal disenrollment I can't get back in, at least according to the corrupt regime in power now.

But I believe that is changing, maybe sooner than later.

Anonymous said...

On 'aamokat statement of the tribal meeting regarding application before the dead line.Right after the hunters were disenrolled Bobby Lameres sister was inrolled. there claim was her application was put in before the dead line. Now should she be disenrolled or should the other application be processed. this is some thing tribal members need to bring up.

Anonymous said...

The reason I brought up the break in family line question is I know there are members that have children/grand children who are not enrolled. As an example I think Joe Liska has children but the tribe would say his children can't be enrolled because he is not enrolled, because there is a break in the family line. But if what you're saying is correct that it must be a break caused by disenrollement or enrollment in another tribe, then his children could be enrolled. I am mainly just wondering if this is something the tribe will use to keep people out.

Anonymous said...

if the person who calls themselves saddescendant will talk, I am related to you and was reading your info online and would like to talk more.


p.s. sorry, I know this is the right spot, but cannot get on the other site.

'aamokat said...

"But if what you're saying is correct that it must be a break caused by disenrollement or enrollment in another tribe, then his children could be enrolled. I am mainly just wondering if this is something the tribe will use to keep people out."

You are understanding the illlogic of what the corrupt few powers that be use to justify their means as they very well could use it as a means of keeping people out if someone's parent isn't enrolled.

However, at least according to the enrollment application, the requirments are being a direct lineal descendant of an original tribal member from the 1800s and a break in linage is stated as from someone joining another tribe, being on a list seeking federal or state recognition, or applying for membership with another tribe regardless if you were accepted or not.

It says nothing about a parent having to be enrolled.

The part about disenrollment being a break in linage may be from the Record of Decision against us and not from the tribal constitution which I believe says the same thing as the enrollment application.

I am not sure about this though as I still can't find my copy of the band's constitution but I am pretty certain it, just like the enrollment application, says nothing about a parent having to be enrolled.

But like I said, the greedy few would try to say that someone can't be enrolled if their parent isn't enrolled even if it isn't true and because, at least for now, they have at this point been able to bend and flat out break the rules to suit their goals of not having to share the loot with us.

'aamokat said...

I found my copy of the tribal constitution and bylaws and under Article II membership it says nothing about someone's parent having to be enrolled.

It does mention under Section C of Article II that if you have even been enrolled in another reservation than you can't enroll in Pechanga.

In practice though they may try to keep an applicant whose parent(s) aren't enrolled out of the tribe as they ussually side with keeping people out and kicking people out.

But if the process is fair, then I believe there would be nothing legal to keep someone out who doesn't have a parent who is (was) enrolled.

Anonymous said...

I would like to know why we cant put applications in at enrollment period when others are being enrolled and the members children under 18 are being enrolled the enrollment commitee had told me they were still enrolling members children this was about two years ago I have three grandchildren and I had foster relative placment of one and the tribe had to be served because of the indian child welfare act the tribe just sent a letter stating the baby was not eligible for membership no reason stated like he could be thrown away

Luiseno said...

What about all those adult members who were enrolled after the Hunters were dis-enrolled? This was well into the moratorium, when questioned about it, I under stand Mark M. just said something like "get over it". This was adult members of one of the enrollment committee who voted to dis-enroll us.... a reward?

Anonymous said...

Iremember that was also was told to me when I called that they were enrolling people I will look at my notes

'aamokat said...

"I had foster relative placment of one and the tribe had to be served because of the indian child welfare act the tribe just sent a letter stating the baby was not eligible for membership no reason stated like he could be thrown away"

It sounds like they automatically stuck this child into the moratorium.

Sad, it sounds like three generations stuck in limbo when the moratorium was supposedly for just one year to catch up on enrollment applications.

'aamokat said...

Add on to my last post, I wasn't at the meeting in 1996 when they passed the moratorium but I was at the meeting in 2000 to vote against extending it.

I don't rememeber if they discussed allowing minor children of enrolled members to be enrolled despite the moratorium and I don't know if the wording in the bogus law allowed for that exception as I don't have a copy of the petition.

It would be interesting to see if the exception of allowing minor children of members is anywhere in written form.

Also, is it written anywhere that a break in linage is from anything but joining another tribe or reservation?

Anonymous said...

No, no, no, and no....all b.s.

Any changes; schemes to continue thefts are null for fraud.

Keep all documents

Nora said...

I am writing a paper for my Ethnic Diversity class at Western International University and my subject is the Pechanga disenrollments. I would love to correspond with someone directly to give more validity to my paper. I do have questions about Miranda family members still enrolled and why on Butch Murphy's biography on the www.pechanga-nsn.gove website as a Tribal Councilman, it states that he is a tribal member. I've read elsewhere that his application was rejected. I would also like to know where I can find a copy of the Pechanga Constitution. I would greatly appreciate any help. Any follow-ups will be sent automatically to my email. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

First regarding Butch Murphy, his mother Rose Murphy was voted to be accepted into the tribe. The vote was done prior to any of the disenrollments.
Next, there were actually multiple disenrollments of the Miranda family; prior to the casino being built, one line from Manuela Miranda was disenrolled because the enrollment committee state that they could not prove lineal decent from Manuela Miranda. Then in 2004 the enrollment committee determined that Manuela Miranda had left the reservation and that her descendants were never associated with Pechanga. Then in 2006 the enrollment committee determined that the Hunters were not from Pechanga.
To comment on the above facts, there were a lot of issues at play as these disenrollments were taking place. The biggest issue was the power struggle that the tribe has; every family is fighting for themselves. The Miranda’s were one of the larger families, and they were becoming more and more involved and powerful within the tribe, and they started to question improper things that were being done. The Hunters fell victim to a similar fate. During this time many families feared being disenrolled and did not stand up for what was right due to fear, other families believe what they were told by the tribe and others were the cause of these disenrollments. In all of these cases it came down to only a few people making the decision to disenroll and the disenrollments were purely political. You have to remember records were not well keep for Indians and for every family you’ll find a few papers that don’t make sense or contradict each other.
Above is simply a brief explanation, you should take a look at this site and google some newspaper articles for Pechanga Disenrollment which will give you a lot more details as to the time table of all the events that occurred. Others will likely provide you with the details of the families that were the head of the disenrollments and how some of these family are likely not from Pechanga. The one thing to keep in mind is that the tribe is not actually bad; there are simply a few individuals who control the tribe that are. These individuals use fear of disenrollment and other political tactics to control and intimidate the good within the tribe.

Nora said...

Thank you, Anon, for your response. I do not think that the tribe is bad. I have been researching for several weeks and have accumulated stacks of print outs of articles, blogs, court decisions and history. I have pulled together a rough timeline and a list of some of the main players... the names that appear repeatedly. It is difficult, from the outside, to follow the Miranda and Hunter family branches. At this point I do not understand how Manuela marrying and leaving the reservation in the 1920's disqualifies her line. The only part of the membership qualifications that I have been able to find do not, to me, explain that claim. I was looking for the complete constitution and membership qualifications in order to document that the membership committee has violated the process as it was set forth. Also, as I understand it, there are some adopted Murphy's. I haven't found where in the family line the adoption took place.

I've seen accusations that the official Pechanga blog has been altered to remove mention of Pablo Apis. I can't directly confirm that, but, indirectly I believe I can address the disenrollment controversy resulting in changes because the bios of the Council members only address membership when stating BM is a member. It seems an obvious attempt at referring to the controversy without referring to it.

I also I have not seen in the history of the eviction and relocation if Palbo Apis' daughters or grandchildren were relocated with the rest of the tribe, only that all of the original rancho had been sold as of the same year.

If someone would care to respond to those points, or to respond to me privately I would appreciate it. I will try to alter my account to allow it to show my email address.

Thank you.

Nora said...

I believe I have made the adjustments so that my email address will show.

You mention that there were several disenrollments of the Miranda family with some occurring prior to the casino. Did the Miranda family oppose the casino? Was this prior to the first gaming machines or prior to the new casino and hotel?

Thank you.

'aamokat said...

Nora, I hope you post your E mail address as I can supply you with some information that will help your assignment.

Contact the O.P., the moderator of this blog, with your information if you want to contact me and he will forward the info to me.

Lookin forward to contacting you or hearing from you.

I am putting together something to present to the human rights submission that AIRRO is doing April 24 in Temecula, Ca and I will give you copies of what I am presenting if you want.

Thank you for your consideration.

I know you want to be objective and include information from the pro disenrollment side but I will tell you they won't give you anything other than a few general statements such as, "a tribe has the sovereign right to determine their own membership" and "due process was followed for the disenrolled and they were determined to not have met the requirments of tribal membership."

But that is all you will ever get from the pro disenrollment side and believe me, I would love to have them state specifics because we can and did refute their bogus arguments and I would love to have a public forum to take them on again.

But everything that supported our rightful claim of tribal membership was ignored by a slim majority of the tribal powers that be.

Nora said...

Hello, 'aamokat, and thank you for speaking with me. Please feel free to email me at

'aamokat said...

Nora, thank you I will contact you this week.

I am working on my submission for the AIIRO event so I can't send you anything today as I will be working on it in the evenings, but not tonight as I have somewhere to be and I am busy during the daytime.

Thanks again for what you are doing.

Anonymous said...

My understanding is the tribe’s stance was that Manuela Miranda broke her ties with the tribe. I believe that part of it was after she left she listed herself as being from a different tribe, which does make someone ineligible for membership in Pechanga. However, records were poorly keep and it’s likely that a government record keeper just wrote down the wrong tribe.
The acceptance of the Murphys came as a vote by the tribe in a general meeting I believe in the 1980s; from what I have seen there is really no other connection. I have years of records and I’ve never seen Rose Murphy on any of them. There was a Sinforosa or “Rosa” Murphy but she was born too long ago to be Butch Murphy’s mother. If you figure out his connection or even how or if he is connected to Patrick Murphy Sr., I’d be interest to hear.
In regards to Pablo Apis, I don’t believe the tribe would ever say that he was not a part of the tribe because there are still families that are enrolled that are connected to his line.
Also, I wouldn’t read too much into what listed on anyone bios; the individual can write whatever they want and they do not have to discuss their family lineage.
I think Manuela Miranda was somewhat effected by the eviction, although it’s hard to say she never who her father and her mother died when she was 5, so she was living with a half sister when the eviction occurred.
The first disenrollment of part of the Miranda family came prior to any part of the casino, it might have even been prior to the discussions of the casino; and I don’t believe that any part of the Miranda family was opposed to the creation of the casino.

'aamokat said...

"I think Manuela Miranda was somewhat effected by the eviction, although it’s hard to say she never who her father and her mother died when she was 5, so she was living with a half sister when the eviction occurred."

The reasoning behind disenrolling the descendants of Manuela Miranda was supposedly because she wasn't living on the reservation when it was created.

However, the half sister she moved in, which supposedly was Manuela's cutting her ties to the tribe as a very young girl when her mother died, was reportedly none other than Candarlaria Nesecat Flores, whose descendants are still in the tribe which include Francis Miranda and her family.

Well C.N. Flores was never listed in any of the census records of the Pechanga reservation in the 1800's either but her family line was cleared from disenrollment in about 2003 despite the fact that C.N. Flores is listed as living at the Soboba reservation in some of the cenuses of the 1890s.

So if M. Miranda's descendants were disenrolled because a little girl had to move in with a relative after her mother died, then why are the descendants of her sibling still in the tribe?

Because either the descendants of both siblings should be in the tribe or they should both be disenrolled.

Article V of the Band's constitution says "elected officials are to uphold the rights of individual tribal members without malice or predjudice."

So kicking out the M. Miranda descendants and clearing the C.N. Flores descendants is a violation of Article V.

By the way, the requirments all of the disenrollees were enrolled under listed being a lineal descendant from either a Temecula Indian or of an original allottee as being ways that one could prove their linage and were in effect in the first written enrollments of 1979.

So the M. Miranda descendants met this criteria.

I will continue this on another post.

'aamokat said...

A couple more points to make regarding the Mirandas and the Pablo Apish descendants.

Is it any coincidence that the law to end disenrollment as a part of tribal law passed in 2005 was submitted by C.N. Flores descendant Anthony Miranda?

I think he knew that the descendants of his blood relatives the M. Mirandas were disenrolled for overly restrictive requirments that were something that his own family line could be measured against as well so the petition to stop disenrolling families kept his family from being moved against again.

As far as the tribe distancing itself from Pablo Apish, I believe the CPP's plan was to eventually move against other Apish descendants such as the Lukers, Magees, Picos, and others.

Ironic that some Apish descendants such as Francis Miranda and reportedly both Mary Bear Magee and Gloria Wright sided with the CPP against their own blood the M. Mirandas.

By the way, some of the other ways the supplement of original written application listed as ways to prove tribal linage was being vouched for by a recognized tribal member or from someone of his or her own family line so both the M. Mirandas and the Hunters meet the criteria at least a couple of different ways or more.

Nora said...

Somehow, it seems, I have deleted the post I was writing and I do not have time to recreate it right now.

My presentation and paper are due in two weeks, but I am entertaining an idea for a historical fiction that might stir emotion and awareness to the issues. In any case, I have had a very hard time distancing myself emotionally from this complex issue. I would like to become involved on some level.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Nora we do need all the ears that are willing to listen we are united in the quest for justice
Stay tuned for more

'aamokat said...

Nora, I know you want to be objective and show both sides for your assignment but like I said, you are not going to get anything from the other side except very general statements.

Every once in a while one of our critics within the tribe will talk specfics but they ussually cut and run and don't stick around for very long after we challenge their statements.

I remember someone asking why we state what, to outsiders who think Pechanga and other tribes like them are on the up and up, are slanderous on our part and why don't sue us to try to shut this and other sites like it down.

But I think it is obvious why we are still here making our case to anyone who will listen.

That truth is on our side.

By the way, 'aamokat means Hunter in the local dialect so it is obvious what family line I am from.

I will E mail you in the next day or so and see how I can get you the information I have.

I have been working during the daytime so my time is limited as to when I can work on what I am going to submit at the AIIRO meeting in Temecula and when I can copy some items I would like to give you.

I think, if you are in the area, you should try to attend this session

Nora said...

Thank you, 'aamokat. My husband and I were talking about the meeting this morning and he was encouraging me to go. I will go to the site for more information.