Wednesday, July 15, 2009

Answering the Deluded Pechanga Members Statements

Our cousin Aamokat answers a Concerned Pechanga Person who claims the facts weren't on our side:


Even Chairman Mark Macarro said that he heard an estimation of 90 percent but he said that was inconclusive.

So he was in effect saying there was a 90 percent probability that we the Hunters are Pechanga Indians but that wasn't good enough?

It couldn't have been a 90 percent probability against our claim of being true Pechanga Indians because all sides acknowledge that our family were on the first census records of the reservation when it was created in the late 1800's and we can prove through probate records that Indians of the period verified our family lived with the people on the original reservation as well as before they moved to the reservation.

Our resident critic will try to say that these Indians where only saying our family were their neighbors and not that we were Pechanga.

However, it is very clear that Pechanga elder Dolores Tortuga included my ancestor Paulina Hunter in the inclusive "we Pechanga Indians" when she tesitfied in the 1915 probate hearings by saying in response to the examiner's question below:

"Were you acquainted with the deceased Pechanga Indian allottee Paulina Hunter?"

Tortuga responded by saying, "yes, I knew her as a neighbor when WE PECHANGA INDIANS lived on the Pauba Ranch near Temecula, California."

Tortuga's testimony was collaborated by Pechanga elder Jose David Rodriguez who added that he knew Paulina Hunter as a neighbor on the Pechanga reservation.

Also, all sides agree that our family has a land patent as Temecula Indians from the U.S. government.

So we own trust land on the Pechanga reservation and many of our family members still live there.

The following excerpt is taken from the official Pechanga Web site concering vaunted (much praised) Pechanga elder Antonio Ashman's recounting of the Temecula Indian eviction of 1875.

The late Antonio Ashman, a vaunted Pechanga Tribal member born three years after the eviction recounted how the eviction-trek ended: "They just dumped them here"— pointing to a low hill near the golf-course. "Just dumped them!"

So why is this significant in showing that we are Pechanga people?

Because prior to the first written enrollment of 1978 our family got none other than Antonio Ashman to vouch for our family as Pechanga people.

And he said in a written notarized statement when he was asked, "did you know Paulina Hunter as a member of the Band."

His response was, "yes, I knew her as such."

Mr. Ashman went on to say he remembered her being called aunt by tribal member Martin Berdugo and that she used to stay in the home of tribal members Salvador and Micheala Quilig and that he heard they were related.

In the first enrollment application of 1978 there was a supplement sheet that listed ways people could prove they were Pechanga.

One of those acceptable ways was to be vouched for by a recognized tribal member and what better person to stand up for our family than to have Antonio Ashman stand up for us!

In addition, seven current tribal elders gave notarized written statements that we are Pechanga people.

Five are listed as being reviewed by the enrollment committee in our Record of Decision and two were turned in during our appeal to the tribal council.

But the committee ignored the testimony in our support in favor of letters and statements from members of the CPP faction of the tribe who said we are not Pechanga people.

Folks those letters and statements from the CPP faction and the fact that are some missing historical documents from the mid 1800s that Dr. John Johnson, Pechanga's own hired expert on the linage of the Hunter family said that no family could find, was the only so called evidence that was submitted against my family in our disenrollment proceedings.

By the way, Dr. Johnson came to the conclusion that my family are Pechanga Indians.

So there is more than enough evidence that should have satisfied any reasonable person's questions regarding my family's heritage.

Pechanga Chairman Mark Macarro said at a 2005 general membership meeting that we should listen to what elders like Antonio Ashman said.

So Macarro and the the tribal officials believe what Mr. Ashman had to say about the eviction from the old Temecula Indian village but they don't believe what Mr. Ashman said when he verified that my ancestor was a Pechanga Indian?

Remember, Mr. Ashman is still called a vaunted tribal elder on Pechanga's own official Web site.

So gentle readers, as our resident critic likes to call visitors to this site, do you believe our critic or Antonio Ashman?

Remember, Mr. Ashman passed away before any of us ever got a penny of per capita money and our critic got a raise when we were kicked out of the tribe.

Here is WHO PECHANGA BELIEVED

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

In this time of economic trials, all seek the truth.
No one wants to pass their hard earned money on to crooks. The present Pechanga tribe is just that. Macarro cannot continue claiming innocence!
He admits to ousting brothers because of a 10% question???
Who does he think this will impress. If the margin was that close, please have the good judgment to move it to a 100% assurance! The evidence has been stated and restated. I promise, we so called “gentle readers” are getting the whole picture!

t'eetilawuncha! said...

Thank you cousin for the detailed and simple story. It is refreshing to see that you state plain facts, and it is an easy read for our gentle readers. Our ancestors are very proud of this blog.

t'eetilawuncha! said...

Thanks to you too OP. Keep up the good work.

'aamokat said...

So anonymous tribal hack come and refute the facts I just posted!

All you have to go on are letters and statements from members of the CPP faction that claim we have never been recognized as Pechanga people and these statements are contradicted by statements from other elders of the tribe not from the CPP faction.

One statement from a CPP elder lists the names of deceased elders who allegedly said that we the Hunters are not Pechanga.

But there is no proof those elders from previous generations ever said we aren't Pechanga. It is just the CPP person saying they said it, pure hearsay!

In fact one of the those elders quoted by the CPP as saying we aren't Pechanga, Salida Stevenson, actually gave testimony in the probate of 1938 for some of Paulina Hunter's children's share of their Pechanga trust land.

So if Stevenson said we aren't Pecahnga, then why would she testify on our behalf?

So we have legal documents such as probate and census records and all our critics have is hearsay.

So again gentle readers, who's side are the facts really on?

One more thing tribal hack, before you post anymore of your dribble, read my comments on the thread about KCET/PBS doing a story on disenrollment as I have answered most of your usual comebacks already.

Anonymous said...

..we most definately see the facts.. it one day will be clear to all and the doors will slam shut!
Please never go away!!!
Thank you for all your hard work to educate the sincere gentle readers.

Anonymous said...

What is soo sad is how corrupt the current trbal leaders are. Great job again stating the FACTS! The problem is the Hunters have never had anyone willing to listen to the facts. It was a simple witch hunt in the name of power& greed that did in the Hunters. The truth has been ignored from day one, if favor of here say & lies,unfounded! Tribal leaders have desecrated bylaws,tradition,history, the pechanga constitution & the will of their people to disenroll the Hunters. Keep up the good fight Hunters, god bless you all. Some day the wrongs will be righted. That is a FACT! Pechanga members enjoy the beautiful new rec center & pool! I'm sure YOUR kids will love it! There are many Hunters kids being kept away. Really,really, sad. GREAT JOB PECHANGA. You must be soo proud.

'aamokat said...

Another thing our resident critic might try to pass off as truth is that the whole tribe supported our disenrollment when in fact the whole tribe voted in 2005 to stop all disenrollments and to end disenrollment as a part of tribal law so the disenrollment procedures no longer existed when we were disenrolled in 2006.

We didn't find out the new law didn't apply to us the Hunters until we received a letter from the tribal council dated only two days before the Record of Decision informing us we were kicked out of the tribe.

Obviously timed so that we couldn't respond to the council's decision which had been done in secret away from the watchful eye of the general membership.

The tribal council stated in their March 2006 letter that the general membership could not interrupt or question the decisions of the enrollment committee regarding enrollment or disenrollment. That it was a violation of established legal precedent.

However, as I have stated before, established tribal legal precedent says just the opposite and current tribal councilman Russell Butch Murphy is living proof that the general membership, as the final authority of tribal government, can in fact overrule the decisions of the enrollment committee.

Because in 1986, after the enrollment committee had turned down the Murphy's enrollment applications, the Murphys appealed the decision to the general membership and the enrollment committee's decision was overruled which allowed the Murphys to become tribal members!

So was the Mark Macarro led tribal council lying when they said the general membership couldn't overrule the enrollment committee and stop all disenrollments including the Hunters?

Gentle Readers, you be the judge of that.

Ironic that if Butch Murphy supported the 2006 ruling that said the general membership could not overrule the enrollment committee, that means he was in effect invalidating his own tribal membership.

Luiseno said...

The Deluded Pechanga Members Statements "Our The disenrollees lost their case in that forum and in the courts> , Is an attempt to fool our Genital Readers into believing that we were offered a fair and impartial court hearing. This is far from the truth! Pechanga has NO formal court system. In fact the people who decided the merits of our enrollment were the very people who had accused us. They removed most of the pro-Hunter members from the enrollment committee, and stacked it with people whom they were assured would vote the way they wanted (one enrollment committee even stated to a Hunter " you are going to be disenrolled no matter what evidence you provide) We did not have a judge, nor were we we given the right to have a jury of our peers. We were not allowed to take notes, nor we allowed to bring in a lawyer. If we questioned the qualifications of any on the enrollment committee to decide our case, we would be disenrolled right off the bat (without going through the process).

The Deluded Pechanga Members Statements "Our The disenrollees lost their case in that forum and in the courts> , Is an attempt to fool our Genital Readers into believing that we were offered a fair and impartial court hearing. This is far from the truth! Pechanga has NO formal court system. In fact the people who decided the merits of our enrollment were the very people who had accused us. They removed most of the pro-Hunter members from the enrollment committee, and stacked it with people whom they were assured would vote the way they wanted (one enrollment committee even stated to a Hunter you are going to be disenrolled no matter what evidence you provide We were not presided over by a judge, nor were we we given the right to have a jury of our peers. We were not allowed to take notes, nor we allowed to bring in a lawyer. If we questioned the qualifications of any on the enrollment committee to decide our case, we would be disenrolled right off the bat (without going through the process).

White Buffalo said...

We the M. Miranda family dispute the fact that the courts made a decision on the merits of our case.

First, Judge Fields heard the original lawsuit. The Defendants "Pechanga Corrupt" filed a motion of dismissal that was eventually denied. We thought this was good because the merits of our mistreatment, the violations of our civil rights, and the disclosure of Pechanga constitutional and by-law violations would be heard by an impartial and non interested third party would finally correct the wrongs of the CCP, Enrolment, and Tribal Council

Second, there never was a public airing of our claims nor was there evidence produced by the corrupt ones in response to our claims that was ever heard in any court. so to the resident critic how is it possible that this was all cleared up and decided in a court of law when first you appealed on the grounds that it was an internal matter and that the courts had no jurisdiction because of tribal sovereignty? Lest we forget that our vindictiveness and pride caused you to dispute our inherent rights as Indians who are a part of the US as citizens.

Third, to the readers of this site if it is not clear the merits have never been heard much less decided in any court of law; further, there have been other attempts by other disenrolled Indians from tribes in CA and the US. To clarify the point the corrupt ones appealed Judge Fields ruling and won by misapplying and twisting the "Indian Civil Rights Act" in that no tribe can be sued directly when it comes to issues of enrollment of its members. It is a loophole in the sovereignty clause of the law that allows for this forum of abuse by corrupt tribal governments. If the enrollment committee and the tribal council had done, nothing wrong then why not let the case be heard? We the M. Miranda family sought relief through the state Supreme Court system and the US Supreme Court system only to be denied a hearing on the grounds that it is the responsibility of congress to make Indian policy in respect to membership and the issues that arise within tribes be settled internally because of the rights of Sovereignty that the tribes were given

Last, to our resident critic get the facts straight and answer me this if you and your buddies were so right then why did you spend so much of the people's money on lawyers, and why is it that you never respond with direct rebottle to any of the statements made against the dribble that you spew? You know who I am yet you hide behind sovereignty like a little girl I think I will call you "Goldilocks" I am not one of the three bears that scared you away. I am Guero Nunez ala White Buffalo.

Anonymous said...

There is one way they could shut us up... this site has to be hurting there busness. All they need to do is sue us to take down this forum. They have access to multi millions of dollars, if they are so freek'n in the right, then take us to court and make us shut up.

Anonymous said...

They won't try to shut us up because we are right and they would have to argue the merits of what they have done in an impartial forum.

I don't even think most of the tribal officials and their attorneys even know very much about the specifics of their claims and they probably only know how to say, "we are a sovereign nation."

Also, does anybody think the enrollment committee members really wrote the Records of Decisions that kicked our families out of the tribe?

I doubt any of those committee members have the knowledge of tribal law (and how to twist it) and tribal history to come to the conclusions that are in the decisions.

So someone else likely wrote them and the committee just rubber stamped them because of their bias against our families.

'aamokat said...

Guero, you are correct the merits of your case were never heard and it all boiled down to jurisdiction.

This is changing though with the Snoqualmie case in Washington state where a federal district court ordered people reinstated because of lack of due process.

So things are changing.

Our resident critic will say that we the disenrolled from Pechanga were given due process but it is just rhetoric without basis of fact.

Question: what do Jolie Macarter and Raymond Basquez Sr. have in common?

Answer: they are both family members of Irene Scearce and Ruth Masiel of the enrollment committee and of Andy Masiel Sr, who was on the tribal council at the time of our disenrollments.

Both Macarter and Basquez submitted letters or statements against our families' tribal membership and their family members should have never been allowed to rule on our disenrollment cases.

Our resident critic pointed out that we are still American citizens and that we should get on with our lives as such.

However, we were Amercian citizens before we were disenrolled who have all of the rights that all other citizens have even within our tribes according to the Indian Civil Rights Act (ICRA).

So our critic says we got a fair trial but how many U.S. courts would allow the relatives of key prosecution witnesses to rule on defendants cases?

Answer: none!

We asked the committee and the council that people with bias who couldn't be counted on to rule fair and impartially in our cases to recuse themselves from ruling on our cases but they were allowed to vote us out of the tribe anyway.

As I have said many times, and I will continue to say, is a violation of Article V of the Pechanga Band's constitution forbidding malice or predjudice against tribal members!

And reportedly both the Hunter and M. Miranda families were disenrolled by a simple majority of one vote on the enrollment committee and their appeals were turned down by the tribal council by one vote as well. So if the biased people would have been made to step aside on our cases, none of us would have been disenrolled.

So tribal hack, show everyone how we were given due process and this time don't just give one of your general statements.

'aamokat said...

Of course they will say that tribes aren't subject to what outside courts rule but there has to be some way to make tribes follow their own rules.

But as our resident critic says, we are and were American citizens so that means we do have the same rights on the reservation that we have off of it.

However, I should have said any fair court not any United States court as jurisdiction has been a huge barrier but that now does appear to be changing.

So readers, who do you believe our resident critic from the tribe who makes general statements that he doesn't try to back up with facts or us who present facts and logic to back up our positions?

danielsmth15 said...

I think my favorite line in all of that is "NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR." Not exactly an anti-war slogan, I guess. But does that mean they don't care sas certification
if we brutally exploit Third World laborers? After all, it's increasing the intolerable position of the proletariat, thus moving the Revolution closer, right?