Tuesday, June 22, 2010

Pechanga's Man's Fight To Be Enrolled in Pechanga Tribe, Where he Belongs

We've written about Joe Liska's continuing fight for his right to belong to the Pechanga Band of Luiseno Indians. A tribe most known for terminating Native Americans from their tribe, but keeping adopted members. They are one of many tribes in CA that have violated the civil and human rights of many of the people. This story below is from 2004

An adopted man who says his biological father was a Pechanga Indian is suing the wealthy Inland tribe and organizing a protest outside its casino Saturday in hopes of pressuring the band into enrolling him and his two children.

Joe Liska, a 43-year-old Arizona resident, was given up for adoption as an infant and didn't learn of his heritage until the 1990s, he said. By then, his biological father was dead, and the tribe had temporarily stopped enrolling new members. Tribal officials said the moratorium, which could end within the next four years, is intended to clear up inaccuracies in the membership rolls.

Frustrated by the tribe's refusal to enroll him, Liska filed a federal lawsuit in November seeking to stop the monthly gaming-profit checks that go out to current members. The tribe was served with the suit last month. Liska also has joined forces with the American Indian Movement and other descendants affected by the Pechanga tribe's decision to temporarily stop enrolling new members.

He and others plan to protest across from the Temecula-area casino at 2 p.m. Saturday, he said. "This is not a club. This is a tribe. It's a blood right," Liska said in a telephone interview from his Arizona home.

"It is going to do harm to Indian gaming and Indian country."

The dispute is one of many that have broken out across the country in the wake of Indian gambling's success. Many tribes divide some of their gaming profits among members, and critics argue the membership disputes are about greed. The Pechanga tribe won't disclose how much members are paid, but in the past some said they receive $10,000 a month. OP: The per capita has gone as high as $30,000 per month after subsequent disenrollments.

Liska insists his interest in joining the tribe isn't about money, but about connecting with his heritage.

Pechanga Chairman Mark Macarro said Wednesday there are many Pechanga descendants who failed to get their paperwork filed years ago and now are shut out by the moratorium. "Enrollment is not intended to be fair. Enrollment is intended to be accurate," he said while attending the Western Indian Gaming Conference in Palm Springs on Wednesday. OP: If it were intended to be accurate, it would also be fair. Those who have blood ties to the band are no longer allowed IN. And the tribal council has acted against the tribe's own constitution.

Macarro said he was unfamiliar with Liska's lawsuit and could not comment on its specifics, but knew of the man Liska says was his father: Fred Magee, a tribal member.

Mary Magee, a Pechanga member and daughter of Fred Magee, consented to DNA testing with Liska and confirmed he's family. "I know he's my half-brother, and I love him," she said in a telephone interview. She declined to talk about the lawsuit or enrollment issues. OP: Magee was later ousted from the tribes enrollment committee for confidentiality violations.

Liska's lawsuit doesn't address enrollment, but he hopes it will put pressure on the tribe and get them to open up enrollment. He accuses the tribe of violating federal gambling law by failing to have an approved plan on file with the Interior Department specifying how the gaming profits are used. Monthly checks to members are not supposed to be made without a plan in place.

Phil Hogen, chairman of the National Indian Gaming Commission, confirmed that the Pechanga tribe does not have an approved plan on file and said the commission began an inquiry into the matter last month.

Macarro said the tribe submitted plans in 1995 and 1996 and later learned they hadn't been approved.

A plan was resubmitted last year and is pending approval, he said.

The lawsuit won't have a chance anyway because sovereignty makes tribes immune to these kinds of claims, said I. Nelson Rose, a national gambling expert and law professor, in a telephone interview.


Anonymous said...

6 yrs later and the story has not changed, why? It's time for the Pechanga people to stand up to the Masiel family and make things right again.

Anonymous said...

Yollie, its time for you to go. Ask Yollie how they got to Pechanga. They have no proof, just oral recognition.

Anonymous said...

How do they (the Masiels) even have oral recognition?

As elders not from the CPP have said that they aren't legitimate tribal members.

They may have been around the Rez for a long time but can they prove that their roots go back to the 1800's?

Didn't their ancestor have multiple 1928 applications and 1950's per capita applications with different people listed as their ancestor?

If that is the case, then they are not legitimate.

for ALL nations...for ALL chukchansi people said...

hil-le hil-le joe...

interesting in regard to the revenue allocation plan not being approved prior to the tens of thousands of dollars being issued each month of per capita at pechanga which has been going on for years now...

i spoke with the national indian gaming commission people and the bia prior to picayune submitting their revenue allocation plan a few years ago, and they stated that written complaints in regard to what was occurring within the tribe in regard to disenrollment and moratorium would be helpful and might be a factor in an approval or denial, but also said (of course) there wasn't much that could be done otherwise...

it was clear that picayune disenrolled everyone they could prior to their submission of their rap, and the feds were well aware of it...

keep fightin' the good fight joe, and i hope many others come to stand with you this weekend at pechanga!


Anonymous said...

43-year-old - His age tells the true story. He had 22 yrs. to apply since he turned 21. He does not apply until money comes into play - go figure.

Anonymous said...

Same goes for the family members of Bobbi LeMere who were enrolled 10 years after the moratorium. Because she voted to disenroll the Hunters in a quid pro quo.

Anonymous said...

did you Read he did not know anything about his tribe,we also were in the dark wonder why the pechanga band does not send notifications of enrollment the money and land and heritage they steal is more important than keeping the tribal rolls legitimate
GREEDY LITTLE INDIANS do not care about the true temecula indians they need to all go. SAYS POLSQWALIS

Anonymous said...

Good point. If we are all enrolled in the California Indian rolls, the BIA sends us notification of things, or did, why could the tribe not as well?

Well into the 1970's, our families were filling out paperwork and such. Tribal members were as well. So some people thought they were enrolled, some people got their name on a piece of paper within the tribe and some people thought it was a done deal. That is why some family is enrolled and why siblings are left out.

In the beginning or even over the last 20 years notices could have been given.

Anonymous said...

Good point. If we are all enrolled in the California Indian rolls, the BIA sends us notification of things, or did, why could the tribe not as well?

Well into the 1970's, our families were filling out paperwork and such. Tribal members were as well. So some people thought they were enrolled, some people got their name on a piece of paper within the tribe and some people thought it was a done deal. That is why some family is enrolled and why siblings are left out.

In the beginning or even over the last 20 years notices could have been given.

Anonymous said...

For all enrollments it is the burden of proof lies with the applicant not the Tribe. Tribes just don't get involved and shouldn't, if a person want's to be left alone in their other world so-be-it. Also, for twenty-two yrs. a man is ignorant to who he is, come on. It's just not viable that the man never looked at his skin and wondered what his origin was. That doesn't make any sense, there is no way he just, "didn't know", if that is true, at best it's a case of choosing to ignore his brownish color and who he really was. There are many Native Americans that were adopted out before ICWA established proctective laws, and they come back looking for their heritage as soon as they turn eighteen. They used to come to the rez and ask if anyone knew their family. They were always welcomed back. And, this was before the money. Money may motivate the Pechanga Tribe and it may motivate the disenrolled, all in all money changes everything, everytime.

'aamokat said...

"Also, for twenty-two yrs. a man is ignorant to who he is, come on"

That doesn't make sense as even if he thought he was Native American, how would he know what tribe he is from?

Because often it takes years to get adoption records opened up so it all adds up he didn't know he was the son of a Pechanga tribal member until after the moratorium had started.

Yes, it used to be that tribes welcomed people who were adopted to families outside of their tribes but I guess gaming tribes like Pechanga have pulled away the welcoming mat.

Anonymous said...

sometimes we are just ignorant to the fact that our government doesn't rule its inhabitants. Not all of us knew that there was more to enroll. Go figure. If you are enrolled within one agency why would you think you needed to keep enrolling. The BIA has our proof, what would have made everyone think oh, now we need to do this again?

Granted for many of our ancestors being a half breed was not a very good thing, so they hid the fact and just maybe they died.

I would give up the money to be accepted into my rightful tribe and mistakes have been made by me as well as the tribe. I just thought things should be handled a little differently is all.

People look for the roots many different ways and we all procrastinate thinking that tomorrow it will still be there. I am guilty.

Anonymous said...

The BIA has a list of all enrolled Native Americans and household members. The list is broken down by Tribes. If you receive any notificatins from the BIA it will always mention your affiliated Tribe. That is how funding is allocated to each Tribe. That is why we are governments within a government, we are separate. Reservations are like little coutries within a Country. Ignorance is bliss and if you keep on telling yourself mistruths, one day you & only you will believe yourself. Like all adoptees, if you want to be found and/or if your looking for someone you have to put in the leg work. There are so many tools available to find someone, if you want to find them. And, when you have twenty-two years to look, you would have found us. The insincerity of a 4o+ yr. old man in search of only gold,didn't care back then cos $$$ wasn't involved. The math is done. Trust me when Native Americans were considered an eye sore, drunkards, savages,ugly and all the rest of the expletives, you did not want to find us or be a part of us, who would if they didn't have to. This is just for the moratorium people! The disenrolled members are living through an unjust, in my opinion.

esthersalinasflorin said...

To Anonymous at 8:15am,
I was "ignorant" for 48 years! I did not know I was the product of an adulturous affair until the last living aunt on my mother's side finally told me the truth. My mother's ENTIRE FAMILY was in on the lie - that an aunt of my grandmother was "Cherokee somewhere" and that dominant versus recessive genes explained why I did not have the blue eyes, blonde hair and white skin of my siblings. I spoke with my brother who was 15 years older than me, and he THOUGHT I KNEW! He was even on the high school football team with a first cousin of mine in Beaumont (Hi Butch!) and had the privledge of having seen my biological father at the games. Unfortunately, my father having passed away in 1977, years away from my even knowing I was not "Irish", that blessing was never mine. Indeed, even though I did have a name and a town (the one where I was born) I had no other facts. I even assumed that due to Beaumont being the nexus of all the activity, I was Morongo! All this time, grand visions of wishful thinking flooded my brain -the welcoming by my "new" family, the immersion in my true identity and heritage, learning the language of my ancestors, discovering amazing rituals I would be exposed to; finally a sense of Belonging and Acceptance that I had been without all my life without knowing Why would come to pass with the open arms of my tribe enveloping me...

It was a year or so later when I finally got the courage to make that first phone call to someone who I thought was probably a relative. Of course, there was much initial suspicion, and I could certainly understand that -- any family of any color would be less than immediately trusting of such a claim. But each phone call to the next person gave me more information, and then I reached my beloved Aunt Juana, my father's sister, who stated that she knew I was out there, but had no idea how to find me! Cricket and Steve generously filled in many blanks as well. What a thrill I felt to discover I had been named after a sister of my father's!

I first came face to face with all my relations on a summer day in close proximity to a corner of Pablo Apis' land, at a protest for the occasion of Mark Macarro's impending re-election.

That day changed me in so many ways, but it also opened up a new way to feel heartbreak.

I have since met many cousins and been blessed by their love and acceptance. I have also most significantly come to know my sister Gracie - a most courageous, tenacious and amazing person.

Courage and tenacity appear to be family traits, and while they are so exceedingly busy fighting the good fight that I am not part of their daily lives and perhaps not even thought of much, I am so very grateful to have the Truth of who I am to comfort me should despair be visited upon me. And I am Prouder than anyone could ever imagine to be my Father's daughter.

Anonymous said...

For post June 25, 2010 2:08 PM: Ultimately, you had clues but you waited, hesitated, didn't get a calling until something came on and motivated you. You had everything you needed all you had to do was make contact. You chose when you would reappear in your ndn world, key word chose and time.

JOE LISKA said...

Thanks ester ,to the fool who thinks he knows about adopted kids ,(bonehead)I did open my record in san diego county when I was 21 (fool)my social worker was david webster (american indian)there was little in my file about my father just my mother .

I tracked her down at age 34 because my records were (sealed)and my birth certificate was sent to the BIA riverside office.

I obtained my fathers info (by a search angel)she got it off the record some how (not sure)but it led me to my family BOZO.


Anonymous said...

Well bozo (what now )you think you know about my life dick head?

next time do your homework first bitch!

duh,,,,,,,,I got screwed by the tribe but I am weak and can,t do anything ,,,boo hoo

Anonymous said...

Your comments about bobbi lemere ,tell me your not a tribal member but disenrolled (I know who you are bozo)!

its your true self speaking,your weak !

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

This is bozo,delusional,

A delusion, in everyday language, is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception. Psychiatry defines the term more specifically as a belief that is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process).

Anonymous said...

His profile,40 to 50 year old male,

delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are,

Incentive Motivation

It is where a person or a team reaps a reward from an activity. It is “You do this and you get that”, attitude. It is the types of awards and prizes that drive people to work a little harder.

no heart or soul,,,,,,,,,,

joe liska said...

Your esther,s blood ,you provoked that response and could care less about her,but she is friend and if you call me again ,and mess with her I will step on your throat ,punk ass !(the adoption card )that means you have nothing!

Take your sorry ass tells of law suit b.s some where else!

I don,t want any phone calls from any snakes!(don,t fucking call me)

Anonymous said...

Look at her name salinas /gomez what ever the hell, why did you kick her to the curb?

She is a person ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

she wanted to be part of her family,,,,,,you guys are fucking sad,,,,,,,,

esthersalinasflorin said...

Esther Salinas Florin Here -
to the above Anon at 6/25 - 11:50

I was never kicked to any curb! Indeed, I am aghast at how any one could reach that conclusion based upon what I wrote!

I use the name "Salinas" because it was my Blood Father's name - as in "Should-Have-Been-Salinas" This is not a legal nomer, I use the name out of affection and Hope. For me to legally be a Salinas, I would need to get my DNA evidence to a judge in the county of my birth and then have she or he issue an ammended Birth Certificate. This is something I would very much like to do before I die - have the accurate facts on record, but this would take financial resources I do not possess at this time. My accurate legal name is Esther Odell Florin. I do not know for certain if my dad knew he was not my father, if he did know, he never gave a hint of it in how he treated me. He was proud of me as I was, and am lucky to have known him. He died in 1980, my mother in 1979. I have been an orphan for quite some time.

In my initial desire to post in this forum yesterday, I simply wanted to impart to the gentle (or not) readers that to infer that Mr. Joe Liska laid in wait to pounce upon his heritage as some kind of opportunity at self-enrichment is a big leap of assumption. A few sentences can never come close to telling the whole and far-reaching story, circumstances, motivations, many twists and turns in the road to Truth...

I had NO reason to believe that I was not who the parents who raised me said I was. I did not CHOOSE the TIME for my grandmother to die - which led to me to talk to my mother's sister, who then told me my dad was not my Father! I was totally shocked, but after my initial reaction, I was determined to find all the details of the Truth that I could. I was not able to devote myself full-time to this, however. I had my job to go to, chores to tend to... At the time, I had no idea where my steps would take me -- I just wanted answers. I wanted to know WHO I was. That I have made actual contact with my Father's family has been an incredible Blessing, and if Anonymous has conjured otherwise, that is their fabrication. That I have discovered my indiginous-ous has explained SO MUCH about my emotional responses to the world around me, and has opened up my mind and heart to more than I could ever write about here.

The heartbreak I spoke of referred to how the current corrupt power structure of Pechanga could choose to put their personal gain over the unequivocal facts of our (and the Hunter's) heritage and identity. The heartbreak I spoke of also referred to Carla Foreman's family's plight, and the inhumanity visited upon them by corruption and avarice.

And I thank you Joe, for counting me as a friend - it means so much. Whether we speak weekly or every couple of months, your Courage and innate grasp of the essense of the issues at stake are rare and refreshing, and both my husband and myself appreciate you on so many levels.

In conversations with my husband, I often refer to the whole Pechanga tribal scene and attendant news flashes as BIZAZARRRO WORLD - there is no Logic, nothing makes any real sense, and the Truth counts for nothing at all...

It is a sad day indeed when the "culture" of the overthrown takes on the qualities of the would-be conquerers.

esthersalinasflorin said...

Of Course, Bizzzarrro World (kind of rhymes with Macarro, eh?)encroaches onto forums like this when "communication" is not direct, people respond to what they possibly think they might understand something someone is trying to say... Reading between lines is never a good idea, in my experience.

I really just wanted to share that no matter what your perspective or station in life or side of the arguement, there is ALWAYS MORE TO THE STORY than a person who is not in the middle of it can know. I cited the example of my circumstances as evidence. I evidently failed miserably.

Oh well.

Thanks again Joe. Happy Belated Solstice to All. Happy Full Moon. Partial Lunar Eclipse at 3:17 am if anyone is still awake.

Anonymous said...

omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!don,t post on this site or pechanga .info

White Buffalo said...

"Anonymous said...
omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!don,t post on this site or pechanga .info"

Who are you to tell people what they can or cannot write, The above statement is one that is insensitive or uncaring.

Esthersalinasflorin, it is not my place to question who a person is or is not, but after reading your post I am surprised and glad to know that you are a part of our family. In your post, you mentioned William Jr. Bill, Salinas as being your uncle, and you mentioned Grace. My question is, is Grace your half sister? If so then I knew your Father Pete Salinas the brother to my grandfather William Sr. Poky, Salinas. My last question is have we met yet, and if I am not mistaken then we are about the same age.

joe said...

Esther you sure can write,,,,,I think the only one I saw that could keep up with you is (arlene macarro)she could write a novel,

you out there arlene?

Anonymous said...

Indian reorganization act,

Sec. 19. The term "Indian" as used in this Act shall include all persons of Indian descent who are members of any recognized Indian tribe now under Federal jurisdiction, and all person who are descendants of such members who were, on June 1, 1934, residing within the present boundaries of any reservation, and shall further include all other persons of one-half or more Indian blood. For the purposes of this Act, Eskimos and other aboriginal peoples of Alaska shall be considered Indians. The term "tribe" wherever used in this Act shall be construed to refer to any Indian tribe, organized band, pueblo, or the Indians residing on one reservation. The words "adult Indians" wherever used in this Act shall be construed to refer to Indians who have attained the age of twenty-one years.

Approved, June 18, 1934.

esthersalinasflorin said...

Dear White Buffalo,

How nice to finally have some contact with you. I have obviously unsucessfully tried to write to you through your posted email address at pechanga.info, quite some time ago now.

I am surprised that you are surprised at my existence. Yes, Grace is my half-sister. She is only about 8 months older than I - the implications of that bit of Mathematics are not hard to compute! I was at Aunt Juana's 80th birthday event up at John's Sr's house, I met so many family and friends that day and if you were there and I did not find you, that is indeed sad. I am always longing to meet and communicate with those who knew my father as I am always hungry for any stories about him.

Unfortunately, I do not have and have not had for some time the resources to be able to jump in the car and use fuel and time at my leisure to visit with family, and especially with Gracie. We have had one face to face meeting, but have had many, many phone conversations and snail mail interactions. When we speak, there are so many things to discuss, many things in the "right now" going on with both of us, and I confess to not wanting to burden her with too many tears, which would inevitably come with speaking too much of our Father.

After my first meeting with everyone at that first protest I and my husband attended, at Aunt Juana's house afterward, I met so many relations - Steve and Cricket I had been corresponding with previously, through Ancestry.com. I visited with Gabriel and Manny, and Danielle, and of course Carla and Mark. By the way, my father-in-law was a science teacher at Beaumont for 35 years - he had as his students Gracie, Gabriel and Manuel. And even more significantly - and this is way before I knew my husband, my father-in-law worked with and was good friends with cousin Mike, and my husband, father-in-law and cousin Mike even went to a few music events in the L.A. area!

I know you are all very, very busy, but I would greatly appreciate some individual contact with you. My e-mail address is epflorin@yahoo.com. In reading your posts, it appears to my eyes at least that you might be able to impart to me some spiritual guidance to possibly help me deal with some of what I feel.

Thank you for taking the time to read my posts, and discern my needs. I can imagine that for ANY PERSON to finally have found one's "lost" family, the impact on their mind and heart and life would be HUGE, but to then learn that another group is, yes, "arbitrarily and capriciously" engaged in a kind of warfare upon them, is a staggering concept to try to deal with.

THANK YOU SO MUCH again for your contact. My day is made better for it.

esthersalinasflorin said...

Greetings to you Joe!

Yes, there are a lot of many things in my mind and heart screaming/crying/aching to get out into the open air...

I would love to have the oh so precious Time to do so.

Love and Cats,
esther and mark

esthersalinasflorin said...

... precious time to write a Novel, that is.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what a wonderfully heated conversation.. This sites is full of many opinions and sometimes leaves your heart and minda racing.

I am very happy for you esther to have found your family. There are many smart and knowledgeable folk on this site who have great memories and lots of knowledge.

For the person who stated that I waited and waited, YOU ARE RIGHT. But honestly it was not intentional. It is easy to judge, but there are many moratorium people and the same would go for them as well. We all have our reasons for waiting and not everyone is out for greed.

Some like me were told by my aunt that nothing can be done, and that was in the 80's, then our family was so intermixed all over san diego, things got lost.

Lets work together and be helpful and respectful. It only hurts people when you judge unfairly upon circumstances you know nothing about.


'aamokat said...

The Band's constitution and bylaws says that the general membership are the final authority in all matters of tribal government and business of the Band unless stipulated in the constitution and bylaws.

Well the Constitution and Bylaws clearly says that the enrollment committee shall open up enrollment the first month of each year.

So if the tribe really went by the rule of law, then the moratorium should have been ruled unconstitutional long ago.

As it was it was only supposed to be for one year so that the enrollment committee could catch up on the applications that were coming in.

So why has it been extended over and over again?

The only conclusion that I can think of is that the majority of the people don't want to share what they have.

Allen L. Lee said...

Well stated " esthersalinasflorin "
I've read every one of your postst on this thread. I will re-read a few of them as they are powerful words. Thanks!
Allen L. Lee

Anonymous said...

So if the moratorium people were only looking for their lineage and culture, they found it. What's the problem. Why disrespect the Tribe by trying to strong arm them into accepting them, when the tribe clearly doesn't want them. The moratorium people have their little paperwork saying they are Indian, why won't that suffice, I mean you've lived all these years as an other, and maybe you still are an other, maybe you have less than 1/16th ndn blood or lower, but you still want to inflict yourself on a Tribe that does not want you, why?

Anonymous said...

To me the argument that you waited too long is bs. So had a person got their application in a week before the moratorium then that person didn't sign up for the money; like waiting a week changed people's motivations. Indian gaming in California passed in the late 1980s, so anyone who signed up after that really could have signed up for the money.

Before the casino there was no real reason to sign up with the tribe, people were signed up with the BIA and they were Pechanga Indians. They didn’t have to prove anything, because there were not really any additional benefits. I agree that once the casino came you did need to establish enrollment with the tribe and ensure members are legitimate, but how can you really say a family who is enrolled are Pechanga but because one person missed the deadline you’re not Pechanga. I’d even be ok if the tribe took things one step further and only heard cases where people have a reason for missing the deadline, and if a person really never had the opportunity to enroll then let them enroll now.

To Esther, I’m just curious, is your enrolled family trying to help you get enrolled? Have they thought about getting a petition to review certain cases like yours of people in the moratorium?

esthersalinasflorin said...

To Anonymous at 8:49am,

Again, I am confronted with my lack of skill at communication.

My family are disenrolled. My great-great-grandfather (I think I have the "greats" right) was Pablo Apis. My great-grandmother was Manuela Miranda.

To quote a brilliant poet I knew long ago, "the door is shut, the Moon is gone..."

To Mr. Lee,
I am honored by your kind words. I speak from the rawness of my Heart, you speak from a measured Mind. I admit to a touch of envy at your obvious immersion in Academia. Due to various circumstances, the blessings of an education have not been mine. I always eagerly look forward to reading your posts as they not only reflect your perspectives and opinions but are also the product of much research.

cash cow said...

Post 8:02,are you smoking crack?

Who,s strong arming who?The tribe won,t let people build homes on their land(they banish them)?

The tribes behavior got them where they are at today,don,t blame anybody else.,,,and 1/16 pechanga half the tribe is not even pechanga indian and half just got in before the moratorium.

I like that thou,first they can,t be sued ,but now they can,and now they are getting strong armed,oh you poor little 25,000 a month indians,go get your grand slam at dennys!

Anonymous said...

To put a comment forward, being enrolled in the tribe was not something that had to be done. You are right when you said being enrolled with the BIA was enough. But with the gaming and other ventures it became necessary to be enrolled within your tribe.

Why: Well for one, tribes became little secret holders. The council won't help you find familys, won't let you into the cultural departments, won't hardly allow you access to reservation activities,(even though you are government approved), snear at you when you are tracing your roots, and the list goes on and on......

#1 reason for wanting to be enrolled SEE ABOVE

It goes beyond money for some of us, if you have never had it you don't miss it; but for Aamokat and his family its more.

Before gaming and greed I heard it was easy to get on the reservations and talk to families., is that true??


Anonymous said...

From what I've been told from my family, is the tribe was always fighting. The difference was it was over land, using the land, power and government support.
For example the Murphy family started problems in the late 70s/early 80s, to get enrolled; part of the Apis family was disenrolled; and there was even a guy on the res who would shoot at your car if you drove down his street too fast, and this was all before the casino. It’s like any place there’s some good people and some bad people. Sanjuanflorist, because you’re part of the Guavish line my advice to you is, ask the people on here if they know of a good person within the Guavish line that might actually assist you in finding out about your family. Who knows having a friend/family in the tribe might help you get enrolled one day.

'aamokat said...

"Before gaming and greed I heard it was easy to get on the reservations and talk to families., is that true??"

I would say this is true but it is also true what one of the other posters said about there always being some conflict among the tribe.

But what really tells the story about the motivation of certain people (CPP) is the fact that the same people who voted us out of the tribe while on the enrollment committee or who submitted signed statements agaisnt our tribal membership actually signed date stamped approval letters and enrollment cards of Hunter family members who were enrolled during open enrollment before the casino.

So why would someone sign anything saying we had been approved if they never believed that we are really legitimate tribal members?

I am currently looking at the approval letter and the original enrollment card of a Hunter family elder and these individuals were among the committee members who signed her letter:

Vincent Ibanez
Francis Miranda
Raymond Basquez
Ruth Masiel

And Vincent Ibanez signed her enrollment card.

All of these people were some of those who conspired to get us out of the tribe years later.

These people could have refused to sign these documents out of protest because six members of the committee out of ten were required for approval.

At least that would have shown that they were consistant in their belief that we don't belong even if it wouldn't have held up our intitial membership.

It seems that before the casino they needed more people to show potential investors that they were a bigger tribe and also to get more federal funding from the government.

Anonymous said...

I just can not wrap mind around the fact that tribes get federal funding and help, but they are a "soveriegn nation" who are not required to submit to the protocols of the US. It is odd to me that their is no help for families displaced by tribes.


Anonymous said...

The Fourteenth Amendment
- Rights Guaranteed
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

apollo said...

brown v. board of education

segregation(sounds familiar)

We conclude that in the field of public education the doctrine of "separate but equal" has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. Therefore, we hold that the plaintiffs and others similarly situated for whom the actions have been brought are, by reason of the segregation complained of, deprived of the equal protection of the laws guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment. This disposition makes unnecessary any discussion whether such segregation also violates the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. 12

Anonymous said...

"Tribal officials said the moratorium, which could end within the next four years, is intended to clear up inaccuracies in the membership rolls."

Well this article was written in 2004 when the moratorium had already been in place for seven years and as of this year, 2010, it still hasn't been lifted.

What kind of idiots need not only seven years but now thirteen years to get caught up on the enrollment applications?

So the tribe is either incompetant or they are greedy!

Anonymous said...

I wonder, if it has been brought up , for this case to be only for membership with out CERCAP benifits. I my self was raised in teh teachings of the luiseno people by may Grandfather, I can remember countless summers preparing the circle for ceremonies, and then it was not about money, but about family. If the people wish to become part of the tribe then maybe the tribal members shoudl make a admendment to those who wish to join, on the cunstitution that they are members for the right reasons, not money. I myself care less about the money, it has always been about the culture and family.

'aamokat said...

But even though the money should not be the reason for you to join, it is yours and you should be able to share what the tribe has.

In fact since you care about the culture maybe you deserve it more than other people who are being cut a check who could care less about the tribe's language and traditions (and there are more than a few where this applies).

Anonymous said...

Their greedy mexicans and that all their is to it,Oops their stupid too!

Anonymous said...

Hey Joe,

How is your court thing going?? Do you have another hearing?? For some reason I can't find any updated information and I was thinking of you and the battle.....


betty of temecula said...

Did I hear that the Pechanga Tribe refer's to their children given up for adoption by tribal members as "johny come lately's" ? If so that is sad,who's playing god here?

Anonymous said...

How can sisters do this to their brother? Why aren't they trying to at least sneak him into the tribe, like Bobbi Lemere, who got her family in for voting out the Hunters?

Anonymous said...

For one thing,bobbi,s on the enrollment committee still right?His family is not right?

By the way who are the current members on enrollment? names?

Anonymous said...

Why does it just have to be Pechanga? His blood is from Cahuilla too. His grandmother was a full blood Cahuilla indian. I guess they don't make enough casino money.

Anonymous said...

With comments like that on this site its easy to see why they call this the INDIAN (The National Enquirer)!

Put that on facebook to!

Anonymous said...

ALIENS LAND ON PECHANGA ,film at 11........

stand your ground said...

There ARE aliens in the Pechanga Tribe, they are called non-native imposters and none-pechanga's who hijacked the tribe.

Anonymous said...

I'm so happy the Hunters and Mauela Mirandas are part of the Pechanga tribe. NOW the tribe is truly blessed by True Pechanga people. They were the first enrolled families and still the true Pechanga Natives.

Anonymous said...

How about a Moratorium article and the rape of those people,(with the intent to commit fraud)!

LIST ALL MEMBERS WHO VOTED FOR MORATORIUM in article ,thats current and not current members ,

PUT THEIR NAMES ON FACEBOOK!list them as rape suspects,not just marky macarro,and the magee,s all names !!!!!!!!!!!PUT IT ON FACEBOOK

Just like the lady said on this article on facebook (right is right)!

Anonymous said...

The non-members live in the past. They will never return to their former enrolled status along with the big monthly check. They had their opportunity during a simple due process as part of a written internal tribal disenrollment procedure to present their proof of tribal membership. They failed to do so. In turn, the enrollment committee, by its delegated authority, removed these non-members. This action corrected an error in the membership roll, conforming it with the membership criteria. As evident, this outcome embittered the non-members, who have since become even more hard-faced toward the tribe. Their bitterness has also changed their mentality to a more negative expression, which shows itself by lashing out at others and putting a negative spin on events concerning the tribe. By this negative behavior, the non-members aim to punish the tribe for returning them to their correct position as ordinary Americans. The general public appears not to care a fig about the plight of the non-members, who perceive themselves as victims of a cosmic injustice. The non-members should accept their proved status as such, and then fit themselves to the good life as ordinary Americans. The non-members in time would more enjoy their daily life without the false cloud they have put over it. The sunshine would reach the non-members, to warm and soften their faces, and to cheer their consciousness. A peace of mind would soon settle in, allowing a fuller enjoyment of their rights, benefits, and privileges as Americans.

needs sun on face said...

When will the sun shine on the face of the moratorium people?

other people use other articles to respond on ,maybe doctor phil will respond back on this article?

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Not if you have to yell. (All caps)

Anonymous said...

Cosmic poet, that better

R.I.P Fred Magee


I humble myself to you god,

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I don,t like what your doing cosmic poet,are you part of my blood? You made your point,I made my point,some of these people are my friends now,and they deserve to be treated as people.

Take your sunshine off this site(or your over kill)

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

If I was a part of your blood, I wouldn't bother talking to you because of your disrespect to your family. At least Esther up there visited with family to get to know her lineage. lol

WARPONY - Joe Liska - Joe - anonymous

Anonymous said...


Here's some poetry.


I like it!! :)

Just joking with you any way.

Anonymous said...

gentle readers,

esther was not invited to the park for the meeting by her own blood,(apish clan)they screwed her!

(If I was a part of your blood, I wouldn't bother talking to you)

Your not a magee , or pechanga indian so shut up and go away.

Put a negitive spin on another story and go drink your wa wa wa wine!

Anonymous said...

lol, you like that gangster nelly,,,,,,

Anonymous said...

This should be the Joe Liska blog 70 comments? Tops the chart!

Don't Hate Let Jesus into your hearts brothers and sisters!

Let it Go! Let those dirty pigs go who screwed you,walk away,why keep talking about?

Damn get a youtube video then,and go off and really talk and stop this spider talk.(can't hear you)!

Anonymous said...

This article is getting hits from facebook.It was seen there and has many people asking questions? The story is nasty but true!

Many of the people connected to this story are nasty ,including people who (say)they are related to Joe Liska. Tribal or not tribal!

Don,t hate ,jesus save those poor
fools haha!



Anonymous said...

I think what our friend here is talking about is part of a post from Esther like this,

"I was at Aunt Juana's 80th birthday event up at John's Sr's house, I met so many family and friends that day and if you were there and I did not find you, that is indeed sad. I am always longing to meet and communicate with those who knew my father as I am always hungry for any stories about him."

I could be wrong though.

Anonymous said...

Like I said ,These people are NASTY they have a" BONE to PICK "with tribal members.They don,t like the MAGEE sisters, so they PLAY their child like games under this article.

The family they bring up(regarding esther)(apish) never supported Joe Liska at his court hearings.(only mr nunez)

They state they are related to him but yet they never went to his court hearing to support him.They had (200)disenrolled?

Joe Liska has to question their motives? HE HAS ATTENDED SEVERAL OF THEIR MEETINGS IN TEMECULA BUT,they have failed to support him.


Anonymous said...

I think the point they were trying to make was if Joe has tried to talk with his family and learn of his family like Esther has, past and present. It's amazing how much can come up in a short period of time and then drop off for awhile. Interesting.


Anonymous said...

I think the point here is that Joe talks to his family up there and its his business not yours!

Lets move on.

Anonymous said...

Gentle Readers

Behold ,NOW you have DIS-ENROLLED and TRIBAL members TRASHING pechanga's BASTARD children.

This place is full of SIN!

DO a FACEBOOK article on the SIN in this ROOM!

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