tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post6485528562986103353..comments2024-03-28T06:01:57.947-04:00Comments on <center>Original Pechanga Blog</center>: WHO is caught in the Pechanga Moritorium on Membership of Rightful People UPDATEOPechangahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687743661360604165noreply@blogger.comBlogger113125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-87685176087112174302009-11-29T22:26:59.875-05:002009-11-29T22:26:59.875-05:00wow, that was a mouthful. So the base roll comes ...wow, that was a mouthful. So the base roll comes from the 1979 rolls. Who has that list?? How many people are listed there?<br /><br />Finding out your true tribe can be frustrating, sad, exciting and so much more I can hardly express.<br /><br />I want to embrace my heritage, but I guess I am the only one. It is sad. Thanks for answering me and I guess I will never get an enrollment appplication.flowergirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06812768549601885020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-55862784286773883422009-11-23T11:54:07.819-05:002009-11-23T11:54:07.819-05:00SanJuanflorist, the base roll that has been in the...SanJuanflorist, the base roll that has been in the constitution since it was created in 1978 was supposed to be from the first written open enrollment of 1979.<br /><br />And those people on that roll were supposed to be directly from the original Temecula Pechanga people from the 1800's. <br /><br />The way to show that you are one of those descendants was listed in a supplement page that was included with the first 1978 enrollment application.<br /><br />The proof listed included being a direct lineal descendant of an original land allotment owner, a direct lineal descendant of a Temecula Indian, a legal deposition of a recognized tribal member, or a legal deposition from a member of your line of descent (assuming he or she was an enrolled member).<br /><br />In 1996 the enrollment requirments for new adult enrollees were tightened to include the requirment of being a direct lineal descendant of an orginal Temecula Pechanga Indian whose ancestor(s) were at the reservation when it was created.<br /><br />But the moratorium was passed that same year so in effect no new adult members were to be enrolled.<br /><br />That is if that law is even legal, which I believe it isn't, as the constitution (unless it has been recently changed) says open enrollment is the first month of each year. <br /><br />However recently in 2009 the tribe apparently voted to have a new base roll from the people currently enrolled who are, as with the 1979 base roll, supposed to be from the original Temecula Pechanga people from the 1800s.<br /><br />But I have doubts about the legality of that new law as well as in 2005 the tribe had voted to outlaw disenrollment so we, the Hunters, should also be part of any new base roll as our disenrollment in 2006 was illegal.<br /><br />And also the disenrollment of the Manuela Miranda descendants in 2004was illegal because blood relatives of theirs, from the Candalaria Nesecat Flores line, were cleared from disenrollment despite the fact that they also couldn't answer the overly restrictive 1996 requirments that enrollment committee held the M. Mirandas to.<br /><br />And one more thing, reportedly new adult members were enrolled in 2000and 2007 despite the supposed moratorium.<br /><br />Confusing? It seems so but the bottom line is tribal officials twist the laws to fit their agenda and at least for now we and you are left out in the cold at least until the corruption is rooted out.'aamokatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-43979030895080262972009-11-22T23:44:03.412-05:002009-11-22T23:44:03.412-05:00Maybe when JENNIE and here gang of evil. Are oust...Maybe when JENNIE and here gang of evil. Are ousted the general population will vote to let us honest indians. the ones that are stuck on the moratorium be inrolled O by the way there are more then 3 of use online. some of us are waiting for the other EVIL NOBELONGS to be ousted and the true temecula indians to be INROLLEDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-84966268481021398772009-11-19T18:11:27.258-05:002009-11-19T18:11:27.258-05:00it means thieves use scheme of illegal moratorium ...it means thieves use scheme of illegal moratorium to steal multi-millions and also' to break 'lineal descendent...A holes know that lineal descendancy continues on...just another scheme...illegal; <br /><br />anything they come up with is illegal; therefore: NULL AND VOID FOR FRAUDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-73267876867947873922009-11-19T16:59:31.608-05:002009-11-19T16:59:31.608-05:00What does an unbroken line of lineal decent mean??...What does an unbroken line of lineal decent mean??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-39670820370706121672009-11-19T11:04:52.827-05:002009-11-19T11:04:52.827-05:00Mr. Lee, your historical analogy is correct and I ...Mr. Lee, your historical analogy is correct and I will had one more analogy that relates to disenrollment and the changing of citizen rolls and the changing of history. <br /> <br />In the 1930's Germany, which had fallen into the hands of the Nazi party, reclassified millions of long time citizens in good standing to non citizenship status.<br /><br />The Hitler lead government in effect "disenrolled" the Jews who were then systematically annilated over time and it was done to correct what the Nazis considered errors in the citizenship lists.<br /><br />The Nazis claimed that the Jews really were not Germans.<br /><br />Sound familar?<br /><br />Well I don't tend to claim that the disenrollments that are occuring all over Indian country, not just at Pechanga, are as bad and as dramatic compared to what happened to the Jews under Hitler's rule, but evil is evil no matter to what the degree.<br /><br />The problem with disenrollment at Pechanga in particular regarding the elimanating of an entire clan if the tribe were to move against certain current members for crimes that individuals have committed or that were committed by the ancestor of the entire clan is that if disenrollment was now a part of tribal law, which it isn't, but if it was, then the entire lineal descent of the individual(s) would be removed as well.<br /><br />It is in the Band's constitution that there has to be an unbroken line of lineal descent so that individual's line would be broken.'aamokatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-80715110359702897922009-11-18T16:44:35.983-05:002009-11-18T16:44:35.983-05:00Good analogy about the "married" interpr...Good analogy about the "married" interpretation. If the dis-enrollments were unlawful based on Pechanga law, then the "dis-enrolled" are technically lawful Pechanga members, but they must assert this fact by their own sovereign actions.<br />If the moratorium is illegal then tribal members can accept applications and approve or disapprove them come January 2010, but a tribal member must accept them and assert it as a lawful act.<br />As I said earlier, if it is true that the government exists as an unlawful representation of it's members/citizens, them every official act they have taken at the time they became unlawful, is also unlawful, private contracts, state compacts, federal grants, etc. Not only does the unlawful tribal officials need to be put on notice, but all others that have engaged in agreements with them need to be notified that their parts in the agreements may also be unlawful.<br />In the meantime, those with the authority to engage in lawful tribal acts should do so with sovereign determination, not waiting for permission or approval from "officials" but acting on the rule of known tribal law, be it constitutional law or traditional.<br /><br />On another note, each individual is accountable for their actions, I will never support the conviction of an entire clan because of the actions of individual clan members.<br />The Base Roll; from what I can tell it is an attempt to create a retro-active base roll established from the current recognized members.<br />In other words if one of the dis-enrolled's ancestors happens to show up on a historical document base roll the same as a current recognized member, they still can't qualify because they aren,t a current member.<br />Their is no historical foundation to create such a base roll that I have seen in the federal recognition guidelines. I could see where this base roll event could be challenged as failing the requirements for federal recognition <br />It's not much different in my mind than what the Pharaohs, Caesars, or, Conquistadors did when they tried to destroy the libraries and histories of the people they conquered. <br />I can see malice on several sides, it has to be tempered with fair rules.Allen L. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-43804303896122786512009-11-17T18:16:01.598-05:002009-11-17T18:16:01.598-05:00from sanjuanflorist
So here is a question for all...from sanjuanflorist<br /><br />So here is a question for all you ex-tribal members:<br /><br />What is the base roll that the tribe wants to do??<br /><br />Who are the beginning members that the tribe says are the originals??<br /><br /><br />What exactly does the tribe require to approve enrollment???<br /><br /><br />who has enrollment applications in duplicate???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-87812373180510059142009-11-17T18:12:14.838-05:002009-11-17T18:12:14.838-05:00From sanjuanflorist
I did not want to start a who...From sanjuanflorist<br /><br />I did not want to start a who did what while enrolled but a mere question of what can we do NOW? I believe with 100% of my values, morals, etc that the Hunters deserve and are entitled to be enrolled. While being a paralegal I learned One major thing, IF YOU THINK YOU'RE MARRIED, ACT LIKE YOU'RE MARRIED, THEN YOU ARE MARRIED. Every court in the world believes that statement and would rule by it. January is a good time for a good old fashion pow wow! Anybody ready?? Kick out the council, gather your friends, family and whomever else and fight for our rights, beliefs and integrity. If we are deserving of enrollment, our family was given land, then what more can they want, I heard they are now asking for blood!! 2010 is a time for change, even Obama said that!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-56815629059852501892009-11-17T16:44:48.160-05:002009-11-17T16:44:48.160-05:00Sorry, As a Hunter descendant I was also there wit...Sorry, As a Hunter descendant I was also there with my children who are still minors, so they would see the inner workings of the tribe. And Hunters have always been involved prior to the casino or any talk of the casino, me and all my cousins were enrolled in 1979 so that makes up a large block of those enrolled at that time. There was such intense hatred for our family you could feel it in the air. <br /><br />So I was there as were many Hunters, some even flying in from out of state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-35064122411500181602009-11-17T15:21:00.093-05:002009-11-17T15:21:00.093-05:00It is true what áanokat said we were there you mig...It is true what áanokat said we were there you might remember me, In fact I remember the moratorium vote I voted against it but it still passed by a small margin. I remember when I first started going to meetings. There were not very many people present, but when others of my family started to go the voting blocs shifted. I can remember the grand potato used to speak on trivial crap for long periods. This then became a type of filibuster so that people could be called to the meeting to shore up voting numbers. It was an us against them ever since the elections in the old schoolhouse back in the late 80s. The main reason we were disenrolled is not because we are weak rather the opposite we are not as evil or corrupted enough to stoop to the level of those wicked family members that chose power and greed over tradition and family values. I remember opened arms in the 80s Indifference in the 90s and Hostility and Hatred in the 2000s We were there because we belong, Remember that that casino sits on our grandfathers land.<br /><br />Guero Nunez aka White BuffaloWhite Buffalohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03418439711300071894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-75577588620663495272009-11-17T14:08:57.943-05:002009-11-17T14:08:57.943-05:00It is not true that the Hunters did not go to meet...It is not true that the Hunters did not go to meetings and vote on important issues.<br /><br />A lot of us signed the petition that was supposed to outlaw disenrollment.<br /><br />And we put one of our members on the PDC board, defeating Jenny (Masiel) Miranda in the process, and we put one of our relatives on the enrollment committee who ended up being one of the people who found corruption on the committee so we couldn't have done any of those things without going to meetings.<br /><br />And we did those things with the help of the M. Mirandas and one of the reasons they came after us is 1.we were starting to win elections 2. our family members found corruption in the leadership.<br /><br />That is why the CPP came after us.'aamokatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-73089344541950800592009-11-17T12:48:30.729-05:002009-11-17T12:48:30.729-05:00San Juan Florist asks some good questions.
Many o...San Juan Florist asks some good questions.<br /><br />Many of the Pechanga people, Hunters and Manuelas were SHEEP and let others do the work for them, content to "go along to get along". Not attending meetings to vote in their interest, or stand up for what is right.<br /><br />No one knew how to stand up to the tribal council to make them do what the tribe required. Recall should have been in order.<br /><br />People are just happy to continue to get their per capita checks and stick their heads in the sand. After all, if they aren't hurt, why take the chance of having the tribe act against you? After all, the tribal council has proven that they WOULD.<br /><br />Your last question is the biggest and most important. WHY are so few standing up for themselves. I think the story of the Little Red Hen is in order... nobody wanted tohelp her plant weed sow reap.. but they sure all wanted some of her bread.<br /><br />OP has asked for moratorium people to speak up her and what have we gotten from the Tosobals? NADA. They are weak and whiny and want others to do the heavy lifting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-48956538035444895252009-11-17T11:33:32.499-05:002009-11-17T11:33:32.499-05:00Mr. Lee
You have very valid points that should le...Mr. Lee<br /><br />You have very valid points that should leave alot of room for discussion. If the Moratorium is in violation of tribal law, How is it that they are allowed to continue with it and for sooo many years? Indian tribes in general would benefit by having numbers so it stands to reason that tribes not allowing membership do so out of greed and power. I am a firm believer that not all people can handle power so that is where a tribal court system would benefit the people by atleast allowing them to be heard. If it is true that Pechanga has no tribal court, the people and their lives solely rest on what 7 tribal councilmen to dictate the lives of so many. That is a mighty big sword. <br />Why are their soo little people standing up for themselves?flowergirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06812768549601885020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-19084878466261489142009-11-14T16:39:36.969-05:002009-11-14T16:39:36.969-05:00Those with actual authority have the right to circ...Those with actual authority have the right to circumvent or relieve those who they charge with performing certain duties if they fail to perform those duties, or worse, corrupt the purpose of those duties.Allen L. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-22822156669850917622009-11-14T12:14:23.338-05:002009-11-14T12:14:23.338-05:00Tribal constitutional government, no tribal court....Tribal constitutional government, no tribal court. What court system is used when a tribal constitutional government has no courts? The federal courts. <br />We know there were complaints about violating federal laws re., Pechanga, but what complaints were in federal courts re., violating Pechanga law based on the reality that Pechanga has no court system?<br />Twelve years without a tribal constitutional violation being brought before a court.Allen L. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-1277647163564475532009-11-14T01:24:12.926-05:002009-11-14T01:24:12.926-05:00“The Pechanga Band derives its authority to govern...“The Pechanga Band derives its authority to govern from the General Membership."<br />http://www.pechanga-nsn.gov/page?pageId=9<br />The general membership can absolve itself of a faulty constitutional government or a governing body that fails to adhere to the constitution at any time.<br /> So I ask again:<br />What law abiding tribal member(s)<br />will accept sanjuanflorists enrollment application in January 2010?Allen L. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-44154568880658167602009-11-13T22:26:07.622-05:002009-11-13T22:26:07.622-05:00I'm not going to let this discussion rest easy...I'm not going to let this discussion rest easy.<br />Here's my question, and it should be considered serious:<br />What law abiding tribal member(s)<br />will accept sanjuanflorists enrollment application in January 2010?Allen L. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-69365361866691798942009-11-13T15:32:33.888-05:002009-11-13T15:32:33.888-05:00I think alot of moratorium people are either waiti...I think alot of moratorium people are either waiting for some other moratorium people to do all the work, or they just gave up. Im so glad jennie and her evil mother are finally facing the truth! Get out liars! and your criminal sons!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-86306675852878120582009-11-13T11:32:17.925-05:002009-11-13T11:32:17.925-05:00What other moratorium stories are there?
Are the...What other moratorium stories are there? <br /><br />Are there only three people in moratorium?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-23493510866107014102009-11-12T21:57:24.284-05:002009-11-12T21:57:24.284-05:00SanJuanflorist said, "When I spoke with John ...SanJuanflorist said, "When I spoke with John at the Cultural Dept of the tribe, he was angry that my Degree of indian paperwork from the BIA listed me as Pechanga. He stated that they are not allowed to do that anymore."<br /><br />They aren't allowed to do that anymore? What?<br /><br />Those CDIB are supposed to be historical documents but reportedly the BIA Riverside office has been changing some of them to San Luis Rey Mission or Temecula recently.<br /><br />Sounds like another link to the corruption that has been ongoing for awhile now.<br /><br />I guess they missed one that they didn't get to change Hold onto yours it is valuable!<br /><br />I guess they didn't notice either that my grandmother's probate, which went through after we were disenrolled, lists her as a Mission Indian (Pechanga Band).<br /><br />It is hard to change history when there are legitimate documents still floating around.'aamokatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-65001821168125962812009-11-12T17:26:53.708-05:002009-11-12T17:26:53.708-05:00from: sanjuanflorist
is it true that the tribe can...from: sanjuanflorist<br />is it true that the tribe can keep us out of the cemetary where our family is buried?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-39380543443754006092009-11-12T15:15:21.013-05:002009-11-12T15:15:21.013-05:00In short "Aamokat
Someone who has never enrol...In short "Aamokat<br />Someone who has never enrolled, January 2010<br />Someone whose enrollment package is on the desk from past January's<br />under an illegal moratorium,<br />Anytime.<br />For them the illegal act is occurring now, they don't have to wait until next January to address an illegal act.Allen L. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-50401852087497166952009-11-12T14:49:24.322-05:002009-11-12T14:49:24.322-05:00Does anyone here have an enrollment application th...Does anyone here have an enrollment application they could send to me so I can get my ducks in a row and see what happens when I send it in?<br />from: sanjuanfloristAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-60632952882156992252009-11-12T13:58:12.187-05:002009-11-12T13:58:12.187-05:00True "Aamokat,
But once the illegal governmen...True "Aamokat,<br />But once the illegal government action has occurred, everything that the government has done is illegal, null and void. The constitution was violated in January, twelve years ago. the violation wasn't corrected in February twelve years and they then became constitutional until the following January. Also I have seen no constitutional timeframe for when a costitutional violation must be corrected based on Pechanga law.<br />Of course you could consider each January a separate "count" violation of the constitution equalling twelve times. That may have some political and legal sway<br />to your action, but from where I stand, the current Pechanga government, based on your accusations of unconstitutional rule, is an illegal government, and has been for at least twelve years, so that the multiple count violation is un-nessecary.<br />It means that the new base roll as well is illegal.Allen L. Leenoreply@blogger.com