tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post5007454136482687002..comments2024-03-28T06:01:57.947-04:00Comments on <center>Original Pechanga Blog</center>: Gabrielenos FIGHT BACK on Pechanga Tribe's Takeover of Ancestor's Remains; San Nicolas Island Dispute UPDATEOPechangahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687743661360604165noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-36437275672548404512015-03-23T02:20:01.721-04:002015-03-23T02:20:01.721-04:00who is headman of the Gabrielenos?who is headman of the Gabrielenos?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-41294814264224483882015-03-22T14:04:00.421-04:002015-03-22T14:04:00.421-04:00Rocha is a scumbag, he doesn't show the truth ...Rocha is a scumbag, he doesn't show the truth of Pechanga's deceits...<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-3243525426657479122015-03-22T04:34:34.910-04:002015-03-22T04:34:34.910-04:00Fight back with what. These people can't get t...Fight back with what. These people can't get their own tribe right. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-73048561963287470902015-03-21T17:32:39.483-04:002015-03-21T17:32:39.483-04:00GOOD JOB GABRIELENOS FIGHT BACK! MAKE SOME NOISE...GOOD JOB GABRIELENOS FIGHT BACK! MAKE SOME NOISE...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-29508502241031207832015-03-20T17:16:55.734-04:002015-03-20T17:16:55.734-04:00That is the whole truth. Macarro et al only follo...That is the whole truth. Macarro et al only follows custom and tradition if it benefits the bad actors outcome. If the plate was turned they would say the same thing. Some of us will allow the Creator to finish the book and the Bad Actors can face the truth one way or another. The truth is crystal clear. Just because custom and tradition has been broken, does not mean we ALL have to stay with the Bad Actors story. 9yrs of lies and misinformation broadcast. Karma plays it's own part in the whole story. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-69944231468243984582015-03-20T00:30:26.231-04:002015-03-20T00:30:26.231-04:00Pardon me if I am wrong, but I think you are a bit...Pardon me if I am wrong, but I think you are a bit confused. You say "<i> I Think something that is being overlooked is that tribal law governs tribal membership, not state law, not federal law, and not cultural, social, or historical ideas." </i>, and I agree that it should, but what happens when this <b> WAS NOT </b> followed. The General Membership <b> DID vote </b> and attempted to decide who belonged. It was the elected counsel who ruled that <b> the main body of the Tribe had no say in enrollment </b>, and in secret meetings (after suspending further General Member meetings) with armed guards decided to throwout the vote of the people, and determined that the Tribe had no say in enrollment matters. Those who tried to complain were threatened with disenrollment.<br /><br />Tribal Law was not followed on many many levels.Luisenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01716990645661766960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-47462292519828754032015-03-19T20:35:32.970-04:002015-03-19T20:35:32.970-04:00Hopefully, the Gabrielenos can find the will to fi...Hopefully, the Gabrielenos can find the will to fight for their ancestors....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-37020374629434784252015-03-19T08:58:44.412-04:002015-03-19T08:58:44.412-04:00That's the real problem. Our Ancestors had to...That's the real problem. Our Ancestors had to follow outside decisions and today our customs and traditions are funneled by a few and not ALL. If the Bad Actors don't agree with ALL they just focus on themselves and dishonor our Ancestors and we are ALL here. Why is it ok that a few make the decision for ALL and say if you don't agree you can be next? Disrespecting our elders to justify greedy actions is yours. Live with your choices if you believe its ok to shake the Acorns from the tree, and rake some up and let the rest rot away. The Oak tree is here with many branches, its been here for decades. Lie or tell the truth and live with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-25974553197472668362015-03-19T03:09:10.980-04:002015-03-19T03:09:10.980-04:00I Think something that is being overlooked is that...I Think something that is being overlooked is that tribal law governs tribal membership, not state law, not federal law, and not cultural, social, or historical ideas. Sure, the latter may inform decisions of how to apply understandings of tribal law, but ultimately the tribe decides who belongs, how they belong, and what benefits they receive regardless if the decisions are good or bad, that is how tribes sustain themselves and ensure their future. Now, the idea of how tribes recognize their members is the problem. Blood quantum, lineal descent, born on the rez, male lineage, and adopted members all make up ways that tribes recognize citizenship. The days of familial socio-cultural interaction and religious clan reciprocity no longer govern Southern California tribal social life. I believe that tribal communities need to make these decisions on how to protect their resources, and that decision is nobody else to make.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-18519576269466041182015-03-18T05:44:48.233-04:002015-03-18T05:44:48.233-04:00Did he Chumash get involved at all?Did he Chumash get involved at all?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-18980940284647109492015-03-16T22:12:05.145-04:002015-03-16T22:12:05.145-04:00The Book has been written and the Bad Actors are b...The Book has been written and the Bad Actors are being highlighted again. Come on Macarro et al, follow custom and tradition. Honor ALL Ancestors rights and ALL the good will flow easier. Start fixing the flaws that have been made under your own boat. Do good things inside, settle the liars club issues and honor ALL ANCESTORS and their heirs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-74869008047672815052015-03-16T18:27:07.612-04:002015-03-16T18:27:07.612-04:00Can anyone imprison a nation forever? F-you Macarr...Can anyone imprison a nation forever? F-you Macarro !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-3181511847853201092015-03-16T17:52:57.659-04:002015-03-16T17:52:57.659-04:00Yes White Buffalo, your argument is clearly stated...Yes White Buffalo, your argument is clearly stated. If the Luisenos extended to the coastal islands and all the peoples in between are connected, then the disenrollees and moratorium people belong too. The Pechanga Band cannot have it both ways, and makes this claim both dubious and deceitful. <br /><br />That is where these definitions conflict. The Pechanga Band wants to use the broad definition of indigenous peoples who inhabited the land before European settlers invaded the territory to establish connections between tribes that were separated linguistically, culturally, and geographically. At the same time the Pechanga Band wants to use the limited definition of federal recognition of those Indians that inhabited the reservation to exclude people who have linguistic, cultural, and geographic connection to the Temecula tribe. Even beyond these connections there are well established historical, racial, and familial connections that have been abandoned and ignored.<br /><br />How can a tribe that abandons and harms their living relations be trusted to preserve and hold sacred the remains of people to whom they have no connections?Reinstatement_Restitutionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930007890367591643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-14561518125733722762015-03-16T16:59:53.264-04:002015-03-16T16:59:53.264-04:00March 15, 2015 at 12:08 PM
I understand clearly ...March 15, 2015 at 12:08 PM<br /> <br />I understand clearly the message you are attempting to sell, but Pechanga cannot have it both ways. You either accept the idea that we Indians have lived in the land for thousands of years or you use the current criteria that you must have been a member of the original families that were moved off of our ancestor's property. I have heard the testimony from Marc about ten thousands of years of possessing the land, yet he and the tribe define themselves starting in 1874. Your concept is noble and I do agree with your statement. Pechanga does not. If they did we would still be enrolled, the Hunters would still be enrolled and the Tosibals would be enrolled. How can you sell your statement when the facts surrounding our disenrollment are actively hidden and history is changed to suit those current council members? As to going back to the same argument I have never left it. We have not been allowed to have our grievances and evidence presented in a meaningful way to a mediator or arbitrator that is impartial and independent of the tribe. I think you do not understand what it means to have your whole identity and history taken away from you, and then you and your family not having any way to regain the cultural status of who you are. We are Indian and our ancestors fit in to the model that you describe, but it appears that you are the one judging us unfairly, for it appears you are using the same standards as the tribe does. What is lost is this is real life with real life consequences.White Buffalohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03418439711300071894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-47670692154013601602015-03-16T09:50:36.993-04:002015-03-16T09:50:36.993-04:00This story is a terrific example of what the old M...This story is a terrific example of what the old Mighty Dollar can do to the Native indians who learn the White mans ways. I will use this site to show my Class room students that it is Not only our Race (White) who have changed History, Now we have the First Nations people doing it. All the historical information my students have gathered confirms the Gabrieleno connection as the heirs to the Nicoleno people. I challenged my students and now to Mr. Mocoro to provide the historical data connecting the Luisueno to San Nicolas Island. <br /><br />abraxashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06040324814798016546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-34918079911020043592015-03-16T09:39:13.662-04:002015-03-16T09:39:13.662-04:00Not only did the Pechanga Tribal council and spok...Not only did the Pechanga Tribal council and spokesman Macarro go against the General Membership on a vote, they went against custom and tradition of the band. Anyone who questioned them on these actions were threatened if they did not allow these actions. Dishonoring Ancestors rights and elders rights and hold power while violating custom tradition and bylaws is how the truth is being broadcast. Lies cant justify these acts. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-7320938529559501392015-03-16T02:35:58.615-04:002015-03-16T02:35:58.615-04:00Pechanga is so relaxed they don't even follow ...Pechanga is so relaxed they don't even follow rulings voted on and passed by the General membership (the ruling body of the Tribe). The Tribe DID decide who belonged by a vote of the People. The tribal government or the elected body ruled that the General Membership had no say in enrollment matters, an out and out lie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-81715532053791445042015-03-16T01:51:44.012-04:002015-03-16T01:51:44.012-04:00Pechanga is so relaxed they don't even follow ...Pechanga is so relaxed they don't even follow their tribal constitution or by laws on enrollment or disenrollment. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-87917382170437510182015-03-16T01:20:38.581-04:002015-03-16T01:20:38.581-04:00I believe that tribes have the right to decide who...I believe that tribes have the right to decide who belongs and who does not. If individuals do not meet the eligibility requirements then they should not be tribal citizens. If individuals are excluded due to not being eligible and that determination is dangerous for the existence of the tribe, I think the tribe should decide how they will secure and preserve their future, nobody else. The tribal government is the elected body and if you don't like their decisions/laws change them. Pechanga's requirement for enrollment is one of the most relaxed in Southern California, they don't even require blood quantum. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-80836780660568201652015-03-15T21:04:19.251-04:002015-03-15T21:04:19.251-04:00Forgive me, for I am not fully versed on this matt...Forgive me, for I am not fully versed on this matter. As a Luiseno person, I have always heard the oral story that Luiseno's occupied the islands. Is Pehcnaga the only tribe contesting? Or are the many other Luiseno tribes in the southern California also contesting and supporting Pechanga?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-84468865079700427932015-03-15T20:44:57.603-04:002015-03-15T20:44:57.603-04:00Bottom line is that Macarro and his cronies are st...Bottom line is that Macarro and his cronies are straight out thiefs. Stealing not only millions of dollars from real Tribal members,, but also people's history. And your fancy wording doesn't change the facts. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-28783326362010761842015-03-15T15:15:38.461-04:002015-03-15T15:15:38.461-04:00I guess what you are saying is that since the curr...I guess what you are saying is that since the current Pechanga government and tribe does not recognize your family and it's connections to the larger Luiseno story, that the Pechanga Band severed your lineage to the larger story of Luiseno people, they should not be the leading entity or authority in understanding how older groups were once connected, that because they flawed in understanding your local family lineage connection to the Luiseno people, how can they speak about older connections between related groups.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-69012881920140189022015-03-15T15:14:23.929-04:002015-03-15T15:14:23.929-04:00If pechangadotnet were a legitimate news source Vi...If pechangadotnet were a legitimate news source Victor R. would fly this story without bias. If it were not for Indian Gaming the Pechanga tribe would have eventually become extinct, no wonder they need to steal another tribe's legacy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-51776361754481788772015-03-15T15:08:53.420-04:002015-03-15T15:08:53.420-04:00White Buffalo, when I say the term Luiseno, I mean...White Buffalo, when I say the term Luiseno, I mean "the people of the West." You can argue all you want about semantics and linguistics, but you are missing the point. Understanding community history and family lineages is important. But, I am speaking about something that pre-designed the Spanish, Euro-Americans in California, and the creation of the Pechanga Reservation through federal law and policy. Obviously, you see or hear only what you want and that lens always goes back to the same argument concerning tribal eligibility to membership. Blood quantum, eligibility to membership, and federal recognition are modern Western ideas that current tribes adopted to protect their resorts and to more easily identify their citizens in today's world. What I am discussing is the flawed reasoning in connecting disenrollment, federal laws and protections of human remains, and your interpretation of what constitutes "Luiseno" knowledge. I have no idea who your family is or what their lineage represents, I am not directing my comments towards your family narrative, I am simply pointing out that the larger story of Creation that is still alive, unfolding, and very much real should frame how we interact with our past, present, and future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2887382220113280558.post-75246221464476267862015-03-15T14:05:02.651-04:002015-03-15T14:05:02.651-04:00Do the Gabrieleno Tongva factions even talk to eac...Do the Gabrieleno Tongva factions even talk to each other?<br /><br />It's no wonder Pechanga swooped in to fill the vacuum...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com