Tuesday, December 8, 2009

Rider: Gambling and Competition, CA's Indian Casinos aren't all the same

Richard Rider has a commentary on gambling and Competition in CA's Indian Casinos. The less competition there is, the lower your chance of winning.

But here's the part that too many gamblers are not aware of. There are significant differences in your chances of winning -- depending on which casino you choose to visit.

How do I know this? I have too many degenerate friends who have visited too many casinos too often. And yes, I occasional go gaming as well.

The general rule of thumb is that the fewer casinos in the area, the worse the payout odds are on the table games and slots.


The Chumash casino outside Santa Barbara is an infamous example. It's the only casino for maybe 100 miles, giving them a de facto geographic monopoly. The odds on their games are quite inhospitable. In addition, the staff is too often deemed surly by patrons.

To a lesser extent, the same is true for Pechanga, which services Orange County and much of L.A. They are one of the few options for the area, so they needn't offer attractive games and slots
.

OP: Another BIG rule of thumb: IF THE TRIBE WILL CHEAT ITS OWN PEOPLE, THEY WILL CHEAT THEIR CUSTOMER. Here is a SMALL list of tribes in California that have CHEATED their people:

Pechanga
Redding Rancheria
Mooretown Rancheria
Enterprise Rancheria
Picayune Rancheria (Chuckchansi)
Robinson Rancheria

Avoid these casinos and SAVE. See this post HOW TO WIN AT THE PECHANGA CASINO

62 comments:

Anonymous said...

myspace.com/warpony2310

adding new friends they shut down my last site!

War Pony Fan said...

Get on Facebook too PONY. Spread your words.

Why did you take down your videos from You Tube. A couple of them were great.

Munoaboy said...

War Pony is a drunken loudmouth. He doesn't belong here.

Anonymous said...

ha ha monoboy or munoa ?

is that a family in the tribe?

if so I bet they are targets for disenrollment?

whats your real name PUNK BOY!

Anonymous said...

yes i am going to make a video regerding my hearing would you like to see it?

Anonymous said...

who,s worse him or that dirty guy taking checks from the tribal council to stop protests!


eye on you

Anonymous said...

I think munoa is rio,s family and your friends so don,t listen to him pony,we no you are friends with the rios!its a fake post!

cork screw

Anonymous said...

money changers (in the temple of god)

the river of jordan (have you not seen enough)

(the missing years)

Anonymous said...

DRUNK COMMENTS

Joe you have done what nobody here has done,defend yourself in court without a lawyer!

I have never heard of any man doing what you have done!

(the people in this room cannot say they have heard of any person defending themself in federal court)

when you die and move on,you will be a legend (do not listen to those who do nothing)

getto rats or rez rats you have shown me show much more about the human race!

Anonymous said...

sorry after a glass of wine you have shown me alot about the human race!

Anonymous said...

maybe what I am trying to say is what do you seek,or what do you want out of this life time?


what is your motivation after being banished by a fake faction and being trashed be your government?

tell me joe?

'aamokat said...

Back to the topic at hand, I did notice when I would play slot machines at Pechanga that it seemed a lot easier to lose a lot of money fast there and that I could in general play longer with the same amount of money and have a better chance to win at Pala.

Along highway 76 or close by is the following casinos; Pala, Pauma, Valley View, and Harrahs at Rincon.

And although Pechanga is only about 10 miles from Pala, it is not near the other casinos Pala competes with as Pala Road (Pechanga Parkway) is the way to get to Pala directly and you can't go directly to those other casinos the way you can from Pala.

White Buffalo said...

Pala is nice, They actualy help their people and work to improve their rez.

Anonymous said...

Why would you go to Valley View they have disenrolled their own members. This is the tribe the B.I.A. said they were wrong on there disenrollment. This is the casino that should be closed down because The B.I.A. can’t recognize the true tribal government because of the two fractions.

'aamokat said...

I have never been to the Valley View Casino.

I was just saying that Pala's odds seem better than at Pechanga because of all of the casinos near Highway 76 including Valley View.

Anonymous said...

From Michael A Rios
InReguards to comments made in the past. About who the tosbol family consist of.
We are from the
ISABELL MUNIA
CAMILLA MUNIA AGUIRRE
We are as follows

RIOS FAMILY
AGUIRRE FAMILY
URSUA FAMILY


Our family is the only family from orignal temecula pachanga Indians tosbol clan that has no one inrolled
please do not forget us
we will not give up


Indian from tosbol clan
and dam proud of it
orignal pechanga

Anonymous said...

TO THE TRIBE DO AS I SAY CCP OR I WILL FUCKING BRING YOU DOWN!

Anonymous said...

To anonymous dec 12, Im from another family and im in this senseless moratorium, Ive heard of your family from tribal member friends, your one of the true pechanga people, and all of you belong in the tribe no ifs ands or buts! Other moratorium families are afraid to speak up and reveal them selves keep it up tosabal clan! you deserve your rightful place in the tribe! forget the gomez and hunter people you had your chance, Let the true indian people in the tribe! It is time to stop the illegal moratorium You tribal people the truth!

'aamokat said...

Yes, the Tosabols are legitimate tribal members who have been wrongly kept out of the tribe.

But don't believe anyone who says we Hunters are also not legitimate tribal members and always have been.

And I am sure that others as well who have been stuck in the moratorium are also legitimate.

All I can say is that I and others when we were in the tribe tried to end the moratorium but I guess some of you still blame us for it even when we have continually spoke out against it in this a Hunter run blog.

So believe it or not when I say I voted against the moratorium and that I tried to put together a petition to end it also.

But consider that I have no reason to lie to you.

Hunter Man said...

I think the Anonymous from Dec 12 is right. FORGET THE HUNTERS and GOMEZ families.

Let the Tosobal Family do it. Look at how much they've done SO FAR (crickets chirping)

Look how come they weren't enrolled in 1979? What have the Rios family done?

Anonymous said...

To hunter man?, whatever, Other than building a clinic, which thahts all we here about, what else have you done?snore, I guess that wasnt enough.Anyway,Im an outsider, ive been on this blog, because of some good reading, i also have friends in the tribe.Other than having a street named after your family, so what! If youve been disenrolled why fight it! the tribe knows who belongs and who dosent.So get on with life. Merry christmas!

Anonymous said...

hunter man
we are talking about familys that are on the moratorium.
not crickets chirping it is clear someone found something out about your family or you would be getting your per cap check and still be inrolled so if you still want to hear crickets chirping go to the park merry christmas

Luiseno said...

" the tribe knows who belongs and who dosent.So get on with life."

Yes the Tribe knows who belongs, that is why they voted overwhelmingly to NOT disenroll the Hunter family and keep us in the tribe. It is a very very small minority that has decided to ignore what the Tribe wanted, and disenroll us anyways. They even have gone so far as to announce that the General Membership has no authority to make enrollment decisions, and disenrolled us anyways.

O Pechanga said...

Any an all who are caught up in the moratorium are welcome to tell their story.

Why be silent? If you belong, YOU belong.

To Anonymous of 12/14 9:09
Hunters have served on the Tribal Council, The PDC, the water board, and the enrollment committee.

Why fight it? Because we were wronged. Why did the tribe keep fighting for water rights from the 1950's? Because it's the right thing to do.

We are fighting for what is rightfully ours AND rightfully those in the moratorium.

'aamokat said...

"They even have gone so far as to announce that the General Membership has no authority to make enrollment decisions, and disenrolled us anyways."

Luiseno is correct because after the General Membership vote in July of 2005 that was supposed to end all disenrollments, after one of the tribal attorneys said that the Membership could vote to outlaw disenrollments, and after Chairman Mark Macarro had said at the meeting when the Membership vote took place, "all means all," when he was asked if everyone who was a tribal member as of the vote would remain tribal members, the tribal council ignored the wishes of the people and let us the Hunters be disenrolled in March 2006.

Their reasoning was that according to tribal legal precedant the enrollment committee is the final authority on enrollment issues.

However, as I have stated previously, the General Membership did vote in 1986 to overturn a decision not to enroll the heirs of Rose Murphy.

So the Murphys, including current councilman Butch Murphy, are living proof that the General Memvbership is the final authority on issues of enrollment.

So the council either lied to the people or they were ignorant of tribal law, what do you think?

So yes our disenrollment was illegal and also as Luisneo said, a minority of the tribe ignored the wishes of the majority who do know that we belong in the tribe.

Anonymous said...

Back to the original post by a moratorium person (rios family)stay strong I don,t no why the disenrolled have to butt in!

They are paid off and afraid to protest(pussys)and they were disenrolled not the rios clan!

They just want to jump on the band wagon because they were already given the boot!

t'eetilawuncha! said...

Anonymous said:

"Back to the original post by a moratorium person (rios family)stay strong I don,t no why the disenrolled have to butt in!"

I agree, stay strong those in the Moratorium. As far as the disenrolled buttin in? I think you need to check what blog YOUR buttin into. My cousins work hard to keep people informed, and have created posts to share the moritorium side of this story. Much appreciation for those who stop in and share thoughts. Even the narrow minded people who only see the small picture, I'm talkin about the small picture of ones self.

You may be some warrior in your own mind, but it takes a true warrior to combine like minded people and not tear them down.

t'eetilawuncha! said...

We may not all agree on a course of action, but the outcome will be to all our benefit if we stay strong. Hang in everyone, it will be made right.

'aamokat said...

"Back to the original post by a moratorium person (rios family)stay strong I don,t no why the disenrolled have to butt in!"

Do I walk into your house and spit in your face?

No and I would never do that in a million years because I support you in getting what is rightfully yours, a place in your tribe.

Well that is what you are doing by saying that we should butt out of this topic on this a Hunter run blog provided for you to by a disenrolled family to give you a forum to tell people what has happened to you.

We were just answering the comment someone said about the tribe knowing who belongs, and that somehow they think we don't belong, when just the opposite is true as the tribe voted to stop disenrolling people but we were illegally disenrolled a year later anyway.

When are some of you going to realize that we need to work together and just as it sometimes seems we are never going to get back in, just as much it seems that you are never going to get in yourselves.

That is if we don't work together to right the wrongs that have been done to all of us.

You think we are weak because we aren't out there protesting but I don't see any of you out there protesting either.

If you want to carry the ball and protest, then we will come out and join you. So set something up instead of waiting for us to do something.

Interesting that some people don't seem to notice that the few protests we have had have been organized by the disenrolled

"They are paid off and afraid to protest(pussys)and they were disenrolled not the rios clan!"

Finally, If we were paid off, my check must have been lost in the mail as I have never seen a penny of it and no one else has seen any money either.

So were you paid off as you aren't out there protesting either?

I don't think so as I think you have more intregrity than that but so do we.

PS, don't you think it could be possible that things for the better for all of us are happening behind the scenes and we don't want to spill the beans and shout to the world about them?

Maybe not, but maybe.

But no matter how much we say we support the moratorium people some of you are going to put us down anyway so have at it if you want to let some steam off at someone.

Anonymous said...

The rios clan was the first to protest when you crickets held us out with a moratorium!

Anonymous said...

Who is (armchair kat )? I never saw him at a protest but he talks alot?

Anonymous said...

I remember that protest, And the hunters were still enrolled!I also remember someone saying a hunter person throwing a water bottle at one of the protesters, stick together hugh!

'aamokat said...

The water bottle incident occured last year when we were obviously not in the tribe and it was current tribal members who did so.

And I have been at a lot of the protests and I am suspecting that some of these posters who are so negative about us Hunters on our own site may not be Rios at all as the Rios I have met, and I have met many of them, are more respectful of people.

Could these people be tribal members trying to divide those of us who have been wronged by the tribe?

I will continue this on another post and copy what I just posted on the other Tosobal thread to show that I am trying to help regardless of what you, if you really are Rios, have to say about us.

Anonymous said...

ya I remember this bitch in her little sports car flip us off and say get a job!

little tramp whats it like to work at denny,s now?

'aamokat said...

Here is what I said in support of the Rios (tosabols):

'aamokat said...
"Ysabel Munio, as spelled in the official allotment records, received allomtment #76 as head of household.

The Tosobals are also represented in other allotments as well.

So clearly they are original Pechanga people and they deserve their rightful place in the tribe.

Unlike the Basquez/Masiels who don't have an allotment as their "supposed" ancestor, Josepha Garcia ( and even their claim to her is questionable) didn't receive an allotment.

So the Tosobal's claim is stronger than the people who in effect have hijacked the tribe who now seem to have some sort of unholy grip on the tribal government and who often spoke out at the meetings, when we were in the tribe, in support of the moratorium."

Even if some of you negative people are Rios (Tosobal)it is sad that you can't see that having us, the Hunters, in the tribe increased the odds of you getting in as we were votes against the moratorium in the first place and now that we are out, there are less people to help you get in.

By the way, here is the link to the story about the protest when the water bottles were thrown at the protestors:

http://originalpechanga.blogspot.com/2008/02/pechanga-member-threatens-demonstrators.html

The story here on Original Pechanga's blog dated Feburary 2, 2008 shows that we were part of the protest as we were disenrolled in 2006 so the "supposed" Rios complainer doesn't know what he or she is talking about.

One more thing, I am not going to bother to respond further to these idiotic posts.

Because anyone with any brains can see that I am helping the Rios cause by posting facts in their support.

So spout off your dribble all you want as it just makes you look like a fool or maybe a trouble making tribal member.

'aamokat said...

A couple of more things and I will drop the issue about the complainers here.

1. This topic was originally about gambling odds at Indian casinos not about the moratorium so the complainers were butting in by getting off of topic.

We were just responding to attacks on our family name.

2. I said they have integrity and while I believe the real Rios (Tosobal) family has integrity, the troublemakers here have none.

So that is it, as I said, go ahead and post your dribble as I won't respond to it further.

Anonymous said...

So why are you posting stories about the moratorium, if this is all about the hunters then say so!, And you want our support?. i really felt bad about your disenrollment but i sure have a change of heart now, good luck! Last time commenting on THE HUNTER WEBSITE!

Hunter Man said...

Again, why do the Hunters have to explain anything? This IS a blog created BY a Hunter. Where is the Tosobol blog?

I would visit a Tosobol blog any time, so why haven't they done one?

But there was a post up a couple of months ago asking for more information on the Tosobol family and nothing but silence! Why should the Hunters or the Manuela Mirandas have to do ANY lifting for the Tosobol/Rios/Aguirre family?

So we lose ONE commenter, buh-bye.

Let OP know when you start you own site.

O Pechanga said...

If the Tosobols start their own site, I will promote it on our blog.

If they don't, they are MORE THAN WELCOME to post here or send me information to post

originalpechanga2@yahoo.com

Also, we post stories on many tribes' injustices, including the Cherokee Freedmen, Redding, Picayune, Enterprise, NOT just Hunter issues, consequently, we have allies throughout the state, which Tosobols may benefit from.

And those friends have been to our protests at Pechanga and Sacramento.

Anonymous said...

You guys are sad and full of crap let me point out what I read on your site,(some guy standing in court defending himself)and nobody there to support him!

Some rios did show up outside the court,(wheres your sorry ass ARIRRO)?

YOUR SO DIVIDED AND WEAK!

YOU REMIND ME OF A GUY ON THE STREET WITH A SIGN (WILL WORK FOR FOOD)

YOU GOT A TASTE OF THAT PER CAPITA THATS YOUR PROBLEM!

MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIVES THE TRIBE HAS SPOKEN!

'aamokat said...

"MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIVES THE TRIBE HAS SPOKEN!"

Yes, the tribe has spoken when they voted three times to start the moratorium and to keep it going all of these years since 1997

So the tribe voted to keep you out, if you are stuck in the moratorium.

But whether you believe me or not, but I will say it again anyway, I voted no on the moratorium and I tried to get a petition submitted to end the moratorium, to help my relatives who were stuck in the moratorium and to also get all of you into the tribe.

On the other hand, in 2005 the tribe spoke and voted to stop all disenrollments, including the Hunters, but we were disenrolled illegally in 2006 anyway despite the fact that the tribe had spoken to keep us in.

However, I have been saying that the tribal council should have ruled the moratorium unconstitutional and of no effect because the Band's constitution says open enrollment is the first month of every year and if I was still in the tribe I would be arguing that point and still trying to end the moratorium.

Someone asked why we even bring up the moratorium if this is a Hunter run site.

Well the moratorium was wrong when my relatives were kept out of the tribe before our family was disenrolled and it is still wrong to keep all the moratorium people out. That is why we talk about the moratorium.


And this obviously isn't just a speak only about the Hunters site as the current home page shows that out of thirteen stories only one is about the Hunters and in fact at the moment there are two stories up about a moratorium family.


I was just saying that people shouldn't come to our site and tell us to shut up when we defend ourselves from comments like the Hunters really don't belong and that Hunter family members threw water bottles at protestors when we were with the protestors when the incident occured as it happened after we were disenrolled.

Hunter Friend of War Pony said...

Mr. Liska complains that nobody was in court to support him. Well, he could have done a better job of letting people know what was going on.

Joe's ranting and raving make him look like a lunatic to some, even when what he says is correct.

Joe, GET IT TOGETHER, put your videos back up on YOUTUBE. Get a good video together, you look GOOD on camera and one of those videos was terrific.

As for per capita, that was RIGHTFULLY ours, just as it should be RIGHTFULLY YOURS and those in the illegal moratorium.

We do get on with our lives, and fighting for what is RIGHTFULLY OURS ... IS PART OF OUR LIVES.

Anonymous said...

NO THANKS ,LET ME KNOW IF YOU PLAN A PROTEST I WILL BE THERE.

>>>>>>>>-------------->

BUT NOBODY GETS ALONG WITH ANYONE SO THAT WON,T HAPPEN!

TRUE WHAT HAVE ON A VIDEO NOW WOULD BE FRONT STREET JUSTICE BUT I HAVE NO DESIRE TO FIGHT ALONE WHEN YOU PEOPLE DON,T WANT TO PROTEST SO I WILL WORK ALONE.

Anonymous said...

BY THE WAY LUNATIC?

ONE THAT GOT HIS BUTT IN A HEARING IN FRONT OF A FEDERAL JUDGE WHO ELSE DID THAT ?

I AM SICK OF WEAK PEOPLE TAKING CRICKET CRICKET,,,,

SO DON,T ASK FOR MY HELP UNLESS YOUR WILLING TO PUT YOUR BUTT OUT THERE!

Anonymous said...

[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/30d81lf.jpg[/IMG]

Anonymous said...

http://i48.tinypic.com/2r6n0n7.jpg

Anonymous said...

BY THE WAY SEVERAL MORATORIUM PEOPLE HAVE ASKED ME TO ASK YOU WHY THE DISENROLLED DON,T PROTEST (IS IT BECAUSE HUNTER AND GOMEZ WOMEN ARE MARRIED TO TRIBAL MEMBERS OR SOMETHING ELSE? PLEASE GIVE US ALL A REASON?

Anonymous said...

What is it with the Anti-Hunter movement I have detected in several of the lasts posts? Hunters not protest!!??? I have seen lots of Hunter family members out there in the protest lines!

Whats with all the lieing, and missinformation being posted?

Anonymous said...

HEY CHECK OUT MY PECHANGA PROTEST VIDEO ON MY MYSPACE AND MY FACEBOOK


YOU WANT A YOUTUBE VIDEO??????


GET YOUR BUTT OUT IN FRONT OF THE CASINO AND PROTEST AND I WILL MAKE 20 YOUTUBE VIDEOS ON EACH PERSON WHO WANTS THERE ON STORY TOLD I WILL BRING MY CAMERA!!!!!!!

I WILL SPEAK OF MY HEARING IN THAT VIDEO

'aamokat said...

"BY THE WAY SEVERAL MORATORIUM PEOPLE HAVE ASKED ME TO ASK YOU WHY THE DISENROLLED DON,T PROTEST (IS IT BECAUSE HUNTER AND GOMEZ WOMEN ARE MARRIED TO TRIBAL MEMBERS OR SOMETHING ELSE? PLEASE GIVE US ALL A REASON?"

I wasn't aware of any of the Gomezs married to tribal members but one of our Hunter relatives is married to a current tribal member but he has been to several protests when we had them and he was not only featured in the "Without a Tribe" news segment that was shown on KNBC channel 4 Los Angeles, he has also been in several of the newspaper stories that have told our story.

I don't know why we are being singled out as the truth is lately no one has been out protesting not just us.

So my question to both the moratorium people and the disenrolled is when are we all going to be out there protesting?

Let's set something up soon.

Anonymous said...

good idea

'aamokat said...

Here are two examples of how people hear rumors and believe them and repeat them even though they aren't true and we can prove it.

1. The repeated rumor was that Hunter family members were still in the tribe and they threw a water bottle at protestors in front of the casino.

But the truth is that the Hunters were already kicked out of the tribe when the water bottle incident occured and were taking part in the protest when it happened in Feb. 2008 as we had been kicked out of the tribe since March of 2006.

Below is an exerpt from 2008 that appeared here on Original Pechanga's blog.

"Luckily for Pechanga, they had the Riverside County Sheriffs on Indian Land to protect them. OH yeah, thank RCS. We had a bottle thrown at us and you know what? We picked it up so you couldn't complain that we left trash in the area."

http://originalpechanga.blogspot.com/2008/02/pechanga-member-threatens-demonstrators.html

2. That Hunter women are married to tribal members and that is why we don't protest.

But, as I said in my last post, we do have a male relative who is in fact married to a tribal member but he has been to most of the protests that have occured and he has been on both television and featured in newspaper articles detailing what has been happening at Pechanga.

And even if I don't repeat the Hunter family member's name who is married to a current tribal member, the documentation proving that he has been up front in telling the world our story is at least as strong as the proof I posted showing we were with the protesters when the water bottle was thrown at us.

Anonymous said...

ammokat SET THE DATE FOR THE PROTEST!

'aamokat said...

I think we should have a protest some time in January on a Saturday to coincide with the fact that open enrollment is supposed to be that month.

And it should be in the afternoon not the early evening as last time we were out there in the dark because there was an event going on with elected officials in attendance that evening but the passersby in cars, a lot them, didn't know what was going on because they couldn't see our signs.

Get together with your families and friends and see what date is good for you.

I think the middle of the month would be a good time to be out there.

Anonymous said...

Thats a good idea both sides ,signs can say open enrollment ,unfair enrolllment practices,corrupt enrollment ,corrupt gov, etc .....federal judges have evidence,,,they aid corrupt gov ,,,etc,,,,,did I say that,,,bia corrupt,,,,

I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME GOOD VIDEO SHOTS ON MY CAMERA AND STORYS!

by the way I think those a frame signs that stand alone like you saw I had on the corner downtown az are really good if placed in the right areas.



I AM GOING TO BUY A LARGE BULL HORN NOT THAT SMALL ONE!

Anonymous said...

SIGNS

federal intervention needed,no tribal courts,amend indian civil rights act,BIA intervention needed,

us congress intervention needed,

I dont care alot for corrupt gov because it does not tell alot to someone driving by.simple signs but to the point.

Anonymous said...

MESSAGE FOR AMMOKAT,


I HAVE TALKED TO 100 PLUS MORATORIUM PEOPLE THEY HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY WANT TO WAIT TILL THE END OF JANUARY TO SEE IF THE TRIBE OPENS ENROLLMENT.

IF THEY DON,T THEY WOULD LIKE TO PROTEST THE FIRST WEEK OF FEBUARY.

IF THEY ENROLL ANY ADULT MEMBERS IT WOULD BE A VICTORY


>>>>>>>>>--------------->

O Pechanga said...

The opening of enrollment BEGINS in January, WHY wait until the enrollment period is over?

Anonymous said...

Don,t protest we tribal members are trying to work out stuff so you can be enrolled!

Anonymous said...

THERE WILL BE NO ENROLLMENT OF ADULTS I JUST SPOKE WITH THE OFFICE TODAY.FURTHERMORE THEY STATE THERE WILL BE A MORATORIUM TIL 2014.

Anonymous said...

wtf

'aamokat said...

So maybe we should wait until February to protest?

If it is true that they won't enroll any adults this month do you still want to wait on protesting?

It will be hard to plan anything for this month, January, and it will be harder the more we wait.

Does everyone still want to wait?